Television

Indymisanthrope said:
That's where I am too!

Then I got sidetracked for the last week with season 3 of Atlanta. For a show where basically nothing ever happens, it leaves you with a LOT to chew on. I need some beefier analysis of that show than what the AV Club can offer these days (shoutout to @Bull Shannon in the comments again, love to see it).
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I’m such a crank in the AVClub comments…
marge-ashamed.gif
 
For the White Lotus finale, I enjoyed it but feel like there are a lot of loose ends for me:

  • Like the whole thing with Jack (had to look up his name - he's the nephew) and Portia - why did he like kidnap her and steal her phone? Was he acting so weird because he really liked Portia and wanted her to be ok? Or was he just pretending to like her the whole time as part of his job? Did her drop her by the airport to like, protect her from Quentin and the gang?
  • Why was he screwing his uncle ("Quentin" apparently) ? That's not really his uncle, right? is it like sugar daddy thing or a gay for pay thing and/or is he like a mafia dude, too? Still don't really get that.
  • What was the deal with Quentin and Greg? Did Greg just marry Tanya for her money? Are we meant to believe that he was gay all along in Season 1 and was just looking for someone rich to marry to get money for Quentin's villa?
  • What was the deal with the prenup? Does all Tanya's money now go to Greg because she died? that seems like a really big loose end to not really tie up at all and feels really awful to end on that note.
  • How much money did Lucia end up with? Why doesn't she want to go to LA with Albie? Didn't she tell Mia privately earlier on that she actually really liked him? Just feels like this ending doesn't mesh with her behavior leading up to this. She didn't seem THAT manipulative.
  • Are we supposed to think Albie is corrupted now for being willing to lie to his mom and manipulate her into giving his dad a chance just so he could get the money for Lucia? Are we also supposed to think that he's as stupid as he comes out looking? $50k is quite a lot of money - just doesn't really seem believable that someone who went to Stanford and was still young and handsome would fall that hard for someone that was asking for that kind of cash.
  • Is it really believable that Daphne and Cameron's kids aren't actually Cameron's kids? Why would he stick around with her if that were true (maybe the other two are his)?
  • Is it really believable that whatever happened between Daphne and Ethan on the island made him so horny for Harper? He looked like he was going to kill her at first when they got back to their room
  • Is Mia the most likable/genuine/grounded person from this season? or maybe Portia?
  • I didn't really understand Mike White saying that season 1 was about money and season 2 was about sex - I felt like season 2 revolved around money but maybe was less explicitly focused on privilege; and I felt like sex played just as much of a role in season 1, but who knows
 
Ericj32 said:
For the White Lotus finale, I enjoyed it but feel like there are a lot of loose ends for me:

  • Like the whole thing with Jack (had to look up his name - he's the nephew) and Portia - why did he like kidnap her and steal her phone? Was he acting so weird because he really liked Portia and wanted her to be ok? Or was he just pretending to like her the whole time as part of his job? Did her drop her by the airport to like, protect her from Quentin and the gang?
  • Why was he screwing his uncle ("Quentin" apparently) ? That's not really his uncle, right? is it like sugar daddy thing or a gay for pay thing and/or is he like a mafia dude, too? Still don't really get that.
  • What was the deal with Quentin and Greg? Did Greg just marry Tanya for her money? Are we meant to believe that he was gay all along in Season 1 and was just looking for someone rich to marry to get money for Quentin's villa?
  • What was the deal with the prenup? Does all Tanya's money now go to Greg because she died? that seems like a really big loose end to not really tie up at all and feels really awful to end on that note.
  • How much money did Lucia end up with? Why doesn't she want to go to LA with Albie? Didn't she tell Mia privately earlier on that she actually really liked him? Just feels like this ending doesn't mesh with her behavior leading up to this. She didn't seem THAT manipulative.
  • Are we supposed to think Albie is corrupted now for being willing to lie to his mom and manipulate her into giving his dad a chance just so he could get the money for Lucia? Are we also supposed to think that he's as stupid as he comes out looking? $50k is quite a lot of money - just doesn't really seem believable that someone who went to Stanford and was still young and handsome would fall that hard for someone that was asking for that kind of cash.
  • Is it really believable that Daphne and Cameron's kids aren't actually Cameron's kids? Why would he stick around with her if that were true (maybe the other two are his)?
  • Is it really believable that whatever happened between Daphne and Ethan on the island made him so horny for Harper? He looked like he was going to kill her at first when they got back to their room
  • Is Mia the most likable/genuine/grounded person from this season? or maybe Portia?
  • I didn't really understand Mike White saying that season 1 was about money and season 2 was about sex - I felt like season 2 revolved around money but maybe was less explicitly focused on privilege; and I felt like sex played just as much of a role in season 1, but who knows
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Answering a lot of these “loose ends” would have put the show into melodrama/soap opera territory IMO. Part of the appeal to this show is that we aren’t granted access to every detail of their lives but rather a brief glimpse.
 
Ericj32 said:
For the White Lotus finale, I enjoyed it but feel like there are a lot of loose ends for me:

  • Like the whole thing with Jack (had to look up his name - he's the nephew) and Portia - why did he like kidnap her and steal her phone? Was he acting so weird because he really liked Portia and wanted her to be ok? Or was he just pretending to like her the whole time as part of his job? Did her drop her by the airport to like, protect her from Quentin and the gang?
  • Why was he screwing his uncle ("Quentin" apparently) ? That's not really his uncle, right? is it like sugar daddy thing or a gay for pay thing and/or is he like a mafia dude, too? Still don't really get that.
  • What was the deal with Quentin and Greg? Did Greg just marry Tanya for her money? Are we meant to believe that he was gay all along in Season 1 and was just looking for someone rich to marry to get money for Quentin's villa?
  • What was the deal with the prenup? Does all Tanya's money now go to Greg because she died? that seems like a really big loose end to not really tie up at all and feels really awful to end on that note.
  • How much money did Lucia end up with? Why doesn't she want to go to LA with Albie? Didn't she tell Mia privately earlier on that she actually really liked him? Just feels like this ending doesn't mesh with her behavior leading up to this. She didn't seem THAT manipulative.
  • Are we supposed to think Albie is corrupted now for being willing to lie to his mom and manipulate her into giving his dad a chance just so he could get the money for Lucia? Are we also supposed to think that he's as stupid as he comes out looking? $50k is quite a lot of money - just doesn't really seem believable that someone who went to Stanford and was still young and handsome would fall that hard for someone that was asking for that kind of cash.
  • Is it really believable that Daphne and Cameron's kids aren't actually Cameron's kids? Why would he stick around with her if that were true (maybe the other two are his)?
  • Is it really believable that whatever happened between Daphne and Ethan on the island made him so horny for Harper? He looked like he was going to kill her at first when they got back to their room
  • Is Mia the most likable/genuine/grounded person from this season? or maybe Portia?
  • I didn't really understand Mike White saying that season 1 was about money and season 2 was about sex - I felt like season 2 revolved around money but maybe was less explicitly focused on privilege; and I felt like sex played just as much of a role in season 1, but who knows
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I think 2/3 - 3/4 of these can be inferred or not based on the subtext the show gives you. it's not all spelled out, but it gives you enough to figure things out, and come to conclusions yourself. Which I appreciate. As for
whether the money goes to Greg/what happens to him, I think we will find out next season and it won't actually be left hanging.
 
Ericj32 said:
What was the deal with Quentin and Greg? Did Greg just marry Tanya for her money? Are we meant to believe that he was gay all along in Season 1 and was just looking for someone rich to marry to get money for Quentin's villa?
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Quentin mentioned several episodes back that he had once fallen in love with a cowboy from the U.S. but the cowboy was unfortunately heterosexual. That cowboy was Greg.
 
Ericj32 said:
For the White Lotus finale, I enjoyed it but feel like there are a lot of loose ends for me:

  • Like the whole thing with Jack (had to look up his name - he's the nephew) and Portia - why did he like kidnap her and steal her phone? Was he acting so weird because he really liked Portia and wanted her to be ok? Or was he just pretending to like her the whole time as part of his job? Did her drop her by the airport to like, protect her from Quentin and the gang?
  • Why was he screwing his uncle ("Quentin" apparently) ? That's not really his uncle, right? is it like sugar daddy thing or a gay for pay thing and/or is he like a mafia dude, too? Still don't really get that.
  • What was the deal with Quentin and Greg? Did Greg just marry Tanya for her money? Are we meant to believe that he was gay all along in Season 1 and was just looking for someone rich to marry to get money for Quentin's villa?
  • What was the deal with the prenup? Does all Tanya's money now go to Greg because she died? that seems like a really big loose end to not really tie up at all and feels really awful to end on that note.
  • How much money did Lucia end up with? Why doesn't she want to go to LA with Albie? Didn't she tell Mia privately earlier on that she actually really liked him? Just feels like this ending doesn't mesh with her behavior leading up to this. She didn't seem THAT manipulative.
  • Are we supposed to think Albie is corrupted now for being willing to lie to his mom and manipulate her into giving his dad a chance just so he could get the money for Lucia? Are we also supposed to think that he's as stupid as he comes out looking? $50k is quite a lot of money - just doesn't really seem believable that someone who went to Stanford and was still young and handsome would fall that hard for someone that was asking for that kind of cash.
  • Is it really believable that Daphne and Cameron's kids aren't actually Cameron's kids? Why would he stick around with her if that were true (maybe the other two are his)?
  • Is it really believable that whatever happened between Daphne and Ethan on the island made him so horny for Harper? He looked like he was going to kill her at first when they got back to their room
  • Is Mia the most likable/genuine/grounded person from this season? or maybe Portia?
  • I didn't really understand Mike White saying that season 1 was about money and season 2 was about sex - I felt like season 2 revolved around money but maybe was less explicitly focused on privilege; and I felt like sex played just as much of a role in season 1, but who knows
Click to expand...
To hit some of your points in a scattered, out of order manner:
  • I think Jack was hired by Quentin and tasked with distracting Portia. Whether he was hired for sex then pressured into kidnapping her, or if he was straight up hired for that role in the scam, I dunno. Overall I got the impression he was supposed to keep Portia busy but he struggled to keep up the facade. Kinda felt like as it was more obviously a kidnapping he couldn’t stomach it and maybe dropped her off at the airport to wash his hands of the matter.
  • I’m super curious about Greg as well, and now I wonder if he’ll be in the next season; perhaps he trolls these resorts for marks all the time.
  • I’m fine with the above ambiguities; it’s key to the tone and suspense imo and I don’t need to know the nature of Greg and Quentin’s relationship to understand Tanya’s in danger.
  • I kind of wonder if we’re supposed to feel ok about Albie and Lucia, like whether she needed his money to be free of her pimp or not, he felt he’d done the right thing. Or perhaps she just gave him a way to feel heroic while still, in fact, paying for sex. I think a lot of the ambiguity with Lucia’s ending/future and whether her pimp was a real threat are important to the story, because it leaves you asking whether Albie is a good guy who doesn’t care whether the money is needed, or if he’s a self-serious white knight, or just another mark/John. The cross-generational shared ogling of passerby in the airport leads me to believe he has more in common with his sex-driven father/grandfather.
  • I believe Cameron knows (at least some of) those kids aren’t his (he looks furious to have to acknowledge them mid-flossing), but like much of their relationship it’s easier to barrel through dysfunctionally than make a change.
  • Who knows what happened with Ethan and Daphne; to me what I sensed was that Ethan just leaned into the dynamic he saw with Cameron and Daphne: infidelity and dishonesty sparking lust. People surmised Cameron and Daphne would kill or scam Ethan and Harper; instead they just infected them with affluenza.
  • I definitely felt this season was about sex. Themes of lust, jealousy, transactional relationships, they’re all present in the storylines.
 
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Bohnjaggs said:
Quentin mentioned several episodes back that he had once fallen in love with a cowboy from the U.S. but the cowboy was unfortunately heterosexual. That cowboy was Greg.
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I think the question is: are they lovers, then? Do they run many scams like this? Or did Greg cook this up in what is strictly a business partnership? I agree with @ayayrawn ; a lot can be inferred and doesn’t need to be answered for the sake of the story being told. I also think we’ll see Greg reappear next season.
 
Bull Shannon said:
To hit some of your points in a scattered, out of order manner:
  • I think Jack was hired by Quentin and tasked with distracting Portia. Whether he was hired for sex then pressured into kidnapping her, or if he was straight up hired for that role in the scam, I dunno.
  • I’m super curious about Greg as well, and now I wonder if he’ll be in the next season; perhaps he trolls these resorts for marks all the time.
  • I’m fine with the above ambiguities; it’s key to the tone and suspense imo and I don’t need to know the nature of Greg and Quentin’s relationship to understand Tanya’s in danger.
  • I kind of wonder if we’re supposed to feel ok about Albie and Lucia, like whether she needed his money to be free of her pimp or not, he felt he’d done the right thing. Or perhaps she just gave him a way to feel heroic while still, in fact, paying for sex. I think a lot of the ambiguity with Lucia’s ending/future and whether her pimp was a real threat are important to the story, because it leaves you asking whether Albie is a good guy who doesn’t care whether the money is needed, or if he’s a self-serious white knight, or just another mark/John. The cross-generational shared ogling of passerby in the airport leads me to believe he has more in common with his sex-driven father/grandfather.
  • I believe Cameron knows (at least some of) those kids aren’t his (he looks furious to have to acknowledge them mid-flossing), but like much of their relationship it’s easier to barrel through dysfunctionally than make a change.
  • Who knows what happened with Ethan and Daphne; to me what I sensed was that Ethan just leaned into the dynamic he saw with Cameron and Daphne: infidelity and dishonesty sparking lust. People surmised Cameron and Daphne would kill or scam Ethan and Harper; instead they just infected them with affluenza.
  • I definitely felt this season was about sex. Themes of lust, jealousy, transactional relationships, they’re all present in the storylines.
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About Lucia and the pimp guy - we see her being friendly with him at the end, when she and Mia are happily walking down that street. It very much looked to me like she was actually friends with the guy and they must have plotted together to put on a show for Albie of him being mad at her and threatening her for money. I definitely came away thinking that Albie is just as much of a mark/John as his dad and grandfather - their wealth makes them more gullible and lacking in awareness, just like Tanya. I agree with you about Cameron and Daphne infecting Ethan and Harper.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Haha I honestly don't even remember what the thread was but I was like "Oh finally somebody sane is stepping in to put this moron in their place," and then realized the someone sane was none other than our man Bull.

Nothing like reading internet comment threads that are 6+ months old and getting really invested in whether anyone made sure that a stupid person didn't get the last word.
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I miss peak AV Club (2006-2013) it’s was such a fun site until Pitchfork poached the majority of the staff to start up their ill-fated The Dissolve movie website, then after that got bought by some VC Hedge Fund Tech Bros and killed any sense of community that made the site special.

Money ruins most everything.
 
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TenderLovingKiller® said:
I miss peak AV Club (2006-2013) it’s was such a fun site until Pitchfork poached the majority of the staff to start up their ill-fated The Dissolve movie website, then after that got bought by some VC Hedge Fund Tech Bros and killed any sense of community that made the site special.

Money ruins most everything.
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After I finish watching something, I sometimes think "ah I wonder what the AV Club thought of this episode!" (see: This past Sunday's Bob's Burgers) but then I remember how they've gone to shit. I learned about and watched SO MANY shows because of them back in the day. Community, Happy Endings, Suburgatory, Pushing Daisies, Broad City, You're The Worst, etc... I might have eventually come around to watching those shows, but The AV Club turned me onto them early which made me and them feel like we were in the cool club.
 
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