The Official Needles and Grooves 1001 Album Generator Project (aka Preachin’ about the Preachers if today’s selection sucks)

Actually, I had not started the other thread yet. So I guess I should consolidate comments here and then try to write something a little more substantive:
I love reviews that don't match their ratings. for Garbage's debut with a 4 1/2 star out of 5 rating:

Really? it can't be... I'm four albums in and I would say Garbage's debut is the low point so far. Which as far as low points go is not a bad thing.
Garbage’s debut kind of sounds like music that would have played in a TJ Maxx in the 90s.
Seems to me, I also said something about it being forgettable. I had given it three stars in the other thread, I'm leaning towards a two now.
 
Actually, I had not started the other thread yet. So I guess I should consolidate comments here and then try to write something a little more substantive:



Seems to me, I also said something about it being forgettable. I had given it three stars in the other thread, I'm leaning towards a two now.

I guess you never owned this one back in the day but it's easily a 4 or 5 for me. Almost half of the songs on the album were huge radio hits.
 
Vig explained that as in his opinion "the most exciting bands are those who incorporate all those elements of punk, funk, techno, hip hop, etc." Garbage would attempt to do the same and "take those influences and make them work in the context of a pop song."
That is from the wikipedia article on Garbage.

You guys know that I'm not a big fan of the "genre" of "grunge." Not, mind you, that I dislike Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, etc. I think the genre is some stupid marketing ploy to convince people that this disparate music that came from a scene is somehow linked by a unique sound which is utterly preposterous bullshit.

That being said, Garbage is a record that is "grunge." It's a pop record with bandmates made of a production team that was en vogue and very instrumental to that scene's rise. They got bored, started dicking around making remixes and then said shit, we should be a band. We can take all these different sounds we love and combine them into a pop behemoth.

Over the years, there have been many disparaging remarks from many of the type of folks who enjoy this band's music about bands like Coldplay and Muse being corporate entities playing to the lowest denominator. I've always found that to be a particularly weird thing to say of a band. Certainly, there have been corporately created bands throughout the years, The Monkees and NSYNC immediately come to mind. Not to say that these bands were not talented. Hell, Neil Young auditioned to be a Monkee and in an alternative reality, he made it and the course of history and music is very different in that timeline. We all know that Justin Timberlake is a very talented musician as well. But to say these modern bands that made it big were somehow created and to use that as a way of demeaning their fans and music was just odd to me.

Garbage's record has some undeniable hits. Stupid Girl, Queer, Vow... they're good pop songs. Very of their moment and time. One might even say production wise, they might be a bit cutting edge. The album does take the sonics of the burgeoning Trip Hop scene (Portishead, Massive Attack) and brings it to the more mainstream alternative music. It's all very marketable and pretty much manufactured that way. This is a band of producers who found a unique singer who was otherwise failing and gave her a platform of polished sounds of the times.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that. If you like it, you like it. It is what it is. There is nothing even bad about this record, you could even point out several things in this write up that show this album deserves to be on this list. It is an album of its time, it kind of sums up the total of the hip pop music scene of the mid 90s and that's important in and of itself.

As a long time consumer of critical writing, I know that a lot of people look at the score before they read or decide to read a review and if you've done that, you probably wonder why the score seems so discordant to the words written here.

The thing is, it is completely a record of the moment, not just in the sound presented as a snapshot of the totality of music at the time it was released, but in that it is fleeting and ultimately unmemorable. Moments after even Stupid Girl plays, it flees from the mind. I think the fervent fans must have been so enamored with the lush sound that they played it on repeat by pressing that magic button on their discman until it did become the earworm it so desperately wants to be. None of it makes any mark on me. Just as Spooner and Anglefish ultimately did not affect music other than being previous projects by the two biggest talents involved in this.

Manson is a capable singer, who desperately wants to be a Beth Gibbons but beyond her striking looks, doesn't find the sound or content to compete. Vig is a producer of some talent. Love him or hate him, he had his finger in the pulse of the music of this time - maybe so much that he made a record that showed how meaningless that actual pulse is. It's remarkable that he did get to work with bands who did make landmark records under his watch and he even gave them a little of his own thing to help define a sound, an alternative to the pop rock, glam metal, glossy r n b, etc. He helped make Punk poppy. Which is a double edged sword, good and bad. The music was brought to the masses and changed everything much for the better before the internet came along to emancipate the populace from their corporate music industry shackles. Ultimately, this is the sound of that freedom and maybe that's why it doesn't make the impression that it should. It's an important record that five hundred years from now (assuming man has not destroyed itself) will not be remembered. Utlimately, Garbage, Manson, and Vig will be footnotes to musical history much like Antonio Salieri.

2 stars
 
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That is from the wikipedia article on Garbage.

You guys know that I'm not a big fan of the "genre" of "grunge." Not, mind you, that I dislike Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, etc. I think the genre is some stupid marketing ploy to convince people that this disparate music that came from a scene is somehow linked by a unique sound which is utterly preposterous bullshit.

That being said, Garbage is a record that is "grunge." It's a pop record with bandmates made of a production team that was en vogue and very instrumental to that scene's rise. They got bored, started dicking around making remixes and then said shit, we should be a band. We can take all these different sounds we love and combine them into a pop behemoth.

Over the years, there have been many disparaging remarks from many of the type of folks who enjoy this band's music about bands like Coldplay and Muse being corporate entities playing to the lowest denominator. I've always found that to be a particularly weird thing to say of a band. Certainly, there have been corporately produced bands throughout the years, The Monkees and NSYNC immediately come to mind. Not to say that these bands were not talented, hell Neil Young auditioned to be a Monkee and in an alternative reality, he made it and the course of history and music is very different in that timeline. We all know that Justin Timberlake is a very talented musician as well. But to say these modern bands that made it big were somehow created and to use that as a way of demeaning their fans and music was just odd to me.

Garbage's record has some undeniable hits. Stupid Girl, Queer, Vow... they're good pop songs. Very of their moment and time. Hell production wise, they might even be a bit cutting edge. The album does take the sonics of the burgeoning Trip Hop scene of the time (Portishead, Massive Attack) and brings it to the alternative scene. It's all very marketable and pretty much manufactured that way. This is a band of producers who found a unique singer who was otherwise failing and gave her a platform of polished sounds of the times.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that. If you like it, you like it. It is what it is. There is nothing even bad about this record, you could even point out several things in this write up that show this album deserves to be on this list. It is an album of its time, it kind of sums up the total of the hip pop music scene of the mid 90s and hell, that's important in and of itself.

As a long time consumer of critical writing, I know that a lot of people look at the score before they read or decide to read a review and if you've done that, you probably wonder why the score seems so discordant to the words written here.

The thing is, it is completely a record of the moment, not just in the sound presented as a snapshot of the totality of music at the time it was released, but in that it is fleeting and ultimately unmemorable. Moments after even Stupid Girl plays, it fleets from the mind. I think the fervent fans must have been so enamored with the lush sound that they played it on repeat by pressing that magic button on their discman until it did become the earworm it so desperately wants to be. None of it makes any mark on me. Just as Spooner and Anglefish ultimately did not make a mark on music other than being previous projects by the two biggest talents involved in this.

Manson is a capable singer, who desperately wants to be a Beth Gibbons but beyond her striking looks, doesn't find the sound or content to compete. Vig is a producer of some talent. Love him or hate him, he had his finger in the pulse of the music of this time - maybe so much that he made a record that showed how fleeting that actual pulse is. It's remarkable that he did get to work with bands who did make remarkable records under his watch and he even gave them a little of his own thing to help define a sound, an alternative to the pop rock, glam metal, glossy r n b, etc. He helped make Punk poppy. Which is a double edged sword, good and bad. The music was brought to the masses and changed everything much for the better before the internet came along to emancipate the populace from their corporate music industry shackles. Ultimately, this is the sound of that freedom and maybe that's why it doesn't make the impression that it should. It's an important record that five hundred years from now (assuming man has not destroyed itself) will not be remembered. Utlimately, Garbage, Manson, and Vig will be footnotes to musical history much like Antonio Salieri.

2 stars
I have never thought this much about Garbage. “I’m Only Happy When It Rains” is a good song, beyond that I am completely indifferent to their music. It neither interests or annoys. If they come on the radio I wouldn’t change the station but I wouldn’t turn up the volume either.
 
I have never thought this much about Garbage. “I’m Only Happy When It Rains” is a good song, beyond that I am completely indifferent to their music. It neither interests or annoys. If they come on the radio I wouldn’t change the station but I wouldn’t turn up the volume either.
Thanks for distilling my 887 words so succinctly. Lol. I caused a little bit of a dust up with pretty similar comments when I listened to it in the other thread. I didn't realize people were so passionate about them.
 
Man, I've got so much to say about this album, as I have such conflicting emotions towards it (I both love it and, yeah, kinda hate it) and I think @Lee Newman got some of my thoughts formulated well above. I'll try to write something more substantial later, but as I'm listening to it now, one word pops up in my head: "gentrification".
 
I only know two songs, 'Only Happy When It Rains' and 'Stupid Girl'.

Looking at the album listing on Allmusic, I am confused (a regular state) - did Garbage steal a Clash song, or did Mick Jones and Joe Strummer decide they wanted to co-write a Garbage song?

I have never listened to a Garbage album, so we shall see if it is or not.

My spell check wants me to get rid of the Americanism and write Rubbish.
 
Last thoughts. Despite always being able to take or leave this band, I have the first 2 CDs somewhere but I got them for €1 each at a charity shop, I did always like Shirley Manson and her personality gave them a degree of authenticity that they may otherwise not have deserved.
 
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So okay, here’s why I think this album is worth some debate and dissection. It came out right in the middle of the 90s, and listening to it today, you can hear how it pretty much sums up what “rock” sounded like in that decade. This was a year after Cobains death, at the height of britpop, and right before the breakthrough of nu-metal/bro-punk, dumbing everything down that was great about loud guitars before. This was also the age of the “alternative nation” on MTV and when every record label in the world was still vacuuming the planet for the next “Nirvana”.

For me personally, the early 90s was like a big exploration of great music I never knew existed, in some part very much thanks to Nevermind and the whole “grunge”-thing (even though I had discovered punk rock and also Sonic Youth before I even heard Teen Spirit, but you get the picture). So I was very much a part of the whole alternative nation thing. In 1995 I was twenty years old, and I was ready to go to the university and become an “adult” (or something along the lines of it at least). Along comes Butch Vig, (producer of Nevermind and therefore also one of the key architects to the “alternative nation”) and decides to start a band. I bought this album when it came out, and I played the shit out of it, simply because I thought it was great. But I think I was also very aware that this album marked the end of an era, both for me personally and for rock music as I've come to know it.

First off, this album sounds great! The guitars are just perfectly mixed so that the spikes of the feedback and distortion scratches your back, but it’s still smooth enough to be catchy and radio friendly. Shirleys voice is cocky and full of attitude, but she never veers over the edges. It’s perfectly balanced, middle of the road, “alternative” rock, with some mean pop hooks. It’ all a big compromise. Here’s also where the “gentrification” comes into play and how shabby but (sometimes) charming neighborhoods get gentrified and the original inhabitants are forced to move out. Garbage is emblematic of the gentrification of alternative music in the mid 90s. And I had enjoyed staying in the shabby (lo-fi) but charming quarters of alternative rock, and I was conflicted about the better living conditions in the gentrified (hi-fi digital) version of “Alternative Rock®” (The MTV Genre). When the music of the outcasts (i.e me in 1991), suddenly was the music of the mainstream, I got a bad taste in my mouth. And the toxic masculinity that dominated rock music in the latter part of the 90s (nu-metal/bro-punk and Bloodhound Gang) is the backlash and actual consequence of this gentrification.

To sum things up: I still enjoy listening to this, and it brings back some great memories. And it is a great piece of musical craftmanship (just listen to the noise cascades that shimmers just below the surface on “Dog New Tricks”) and a string of great pop songs (“Vow” “Supervixen” and “Queer” are favorites). But I also dislike what it represented in the cultural shift of the mid 90s and how the popular kids and the corporate world around me was stealing “my” music. But I also guess it was never really “mine” to begin with.
Score: 3 stars (a perfect compromise of 1 and 5 stars)
 
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I only know two songs, 'Only Happy When It Rains' and 'Stupid Girl'.

Looking at the album listing on Allmusic, I am confused (a regular state) - did Garbage steal a Clash song, or did Mick Jones and Joe Strummer decide they wanted to co-write a Garbage song?

That would be weird and fun indeed, but they sampled Train in Vain on Stupid Girl, so it's a pretty boring explanation.
 
So okay, here’s why I think this album is worth some debate and dissection. It came out right in the middle of the 90s, and listening to it today, you can hear how it pretty much sums up what “rock” sounded like in that decade. This was a year after Cobains death, at the height of britpop, and right before the breakthrough of nu-metal/bro-punk, dumbing everything down that was great about loud guitars before. This was also the age of the “alternative nation” on MTV and when every record label in the world was still vacuuming the planet for the next “Nirvana”.

For me personally, the early 90s was like a big exploration of great music I never knew existed, in some part very much thanks to Nevermind and the whole “grunge”-thing (even though I had discovered punk rock and also Sonic Youth before I even heard Teen Spirit, but you get the picture). So I was very much a part of the whole alternative nation thing. In 1995 I was twenty years old, and I was ready to go to the university and become an “adult” (or something along the lines of it at least). Along comes Butch Vig, (producer of Nevermind and therefore also one of the key architects to the “alternative nation”) and decides to start a band. I bought this album when it came out, and I played the shit out of it, simply because I thought it was great. But I think I was also very aware that this album marked the end of an era, both for me personally and for rock music as we know it.

First off, this album sounds great! The guitars are just perfectly mixed so that the spikes of the feedback and distortion scratches your back, but it’s still smooth enough to be catchy and radio friendly. Shirleys voice is cocky and full of attitude, but she never veers over the edges. It’s perfectly balanced, middle of the road, “alternative” rock, with some mean pop hooks. It’ all a big compromise. Here’s also where the “gentrification” comes into play and how shabby but (sometimes) charming neighborhoods get gentrified and the original inhabitants are forced to move out. Garbage is emblematic of the gentrification of alternative music in the mid 90s. And I had enjoyed staying in the shabby (lo-fi) but charming quarters of alternative rock, and I was conflicted about the better living conditions in the gentrified (hi-fi digital) version of “Alternative Rock®” (The MTV Genre). When the music of the outcasts (i.e me in 1991), suddenly was the music of the mainstream, I got a bad taste in my mouth. And the toxic masculinity that dominated rock music in the latter part of the 90s (nu-metal/bro-punk and Bloodhound Gang) is the backlash and actual consequence of this gentrification.

To sum things up: I still enjoy listening to this, and it brings back some great memories. And it is a great piece of musical craftmanship (just listen to the noise cascades that shimmers just below the surface on “Dog New Tricks”) and a string of great pop songs (“Vow” “Supervixen” and “Queer” are favorites). But I also dislike what it represented in the cultural shift of the mid 90s and how the popular kids and the corporate world around me was stealing “my” music. But I also guess it was never really “mine” to begin with.
Score: 3 stars (a perfect compromise of 1 and 5 stars)
We’ve been gentrifying other in music for much longer than this. Hell in the beginnings of Rock it goes back even further than Elvis. It probably started with some attitudes leveled at Rosetta Tharpe but it was for sure active when they told Little Richard to edit Tutti Frutti.
 
We’ve been gentrifying other in music for much longer than this. Hell in the beginnings of Rock it goes back even further than Elvis. It probably started with some attitudes leveled at Rosetta Tharpe but it was for sure active when they told Little Richard to edit Tutti Frutti.
Yep, you're right, and I guess this is what happens whenever a new sound or scene emerges and breaks through (see punk, hip hop, hell even death metal). But this was my scene, hence why it's kinda personal for me.
 
Garbage - Garbage
I don't remember 'I'm Only Happy When It Rains' sounding like this, perhaps I remembered a completely different song?!

I heard that if you put the CD case down on any surface, even the most perfectly flat surface known to man, it would slide off because the production on this is so slick.

(I made that up)

'Not My Idea' is a terrible song.

'Stupid Girl' sounds like I remember.

'As Heaven Is Wide' and 'Stupid Girl' are alright, everything else is fairly forgettable, except 'Not My Idea' which is fucking awful and something I imagine everyone involved with the band says whenever they hear the song again.

2 / 5 stars.
 
This is one where I pretty vehemently disagree with some of the takes on it. While I think maybe it's fair to say it's a marketing experiment of a band cooked up in a laboratory of over-production, as mentioned there are a lot of bands that fall into that category to varying levels of success, personal taste, and talent.

For me Shirley Manson put a unique stamp on the music and on women fronted rock. They were one of a very few woman fronted mainstream alternative bands that broke through the male dominated rock scene in the 90s without being one of the Lilith Fair types (lots of great musicians in that scene who created their own space, just not directly comparable to most mainstream alternative at the time). Some comparisons to Portishead are to be expected, but I don't think it's fair to say Manson wishes she was Beth Gibbons. That sounds like a subjective off the cuff statement by someone who's a fan of one and not the other, rather than anything that there is evidence to support. Other than some superficial similarities, Garbage and Manson go in a very different direction on future albums. I think it's clear Manson was way more interested in creating a personality as a front woman than Gibbons ever was.

Finally, I'll point out how many of their songs broached topics that were not otherwise hitting the mainstream and alternative airways. If not always on the hits, the CDs that they put in kids hands did a lot of that work. Of course there were other bands doing it more explicitly, but not so many as with their reach.

I still love these albums and the first two are both solid 5/5 for me.
 
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This is one where I pretty vehemently disagree with some of the takes on it. While I think maybe it's fair to say it's a marketing experiment of a band cooked up in a laboratory of over-production, as mentioned there are a lot of bands that fall into that category to varying levels of success, personal taste, and talent.

For me Shirley Manson put a unique stamp on the music and on women fronted rock. They were one of a very few few woman fronted mainstream alternative bands that broke through the male dominated rock scene in the 90s without being one of the Lilith Fair types (lots of great musicians in that scene who created their own space, just not directly comparable to most mainstream alternative at the time). Some comparisons to Portishead are to be expected, but I don't think it's fair to say Manson wishes she was Beth Gibbons. That sounds like a subjective off the cuff statement by someone who's a fan of one and not the other, rather than anything that there is evidence to support. Other than some superficial similarities, Garbage and Manson go in a very different direction on future albums. I think it's clear Manson was way more interested in creating a personality as a front woman than Gibbons ever was.

Finally, I'll point out how many of their songs broached topics that were not otherwise hitting the mainstream and alternative airways. If not always on the hits, the CDs that they put in kids hands did a lot of that work. Of course there were other bands doing it more explicitly, but not so many as with their reach.

I still love these albums and the first two are both solid 5/5 for me.
You are correct about them being forerunners of women fronted rock bands at the time. And I kinda agree with everything else you write too. And the whole verisimilitude/authenticity debate that I snared myself into is really besides the point. But I would still say that Garbage was one of the last good bands that emerged out the the whole grunge thing and breached the mainstream.
 
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