Definitive Audiophile pressings

[waruv]

Strongly disagree on the one step "bubble" and it kinda ignores all context surrounding some of these releases.

Relaxin didn't sell out because AP is repressing their $40 AAA version at some point. If the AP wasn't coming out, I'd bet almost anything the Craft would have sold out. Same reason why the MoFi Folk Singer didn't sell out very quickly (I think you can still get it at retail or below). If AP comes out and says "we aren't repressing Relaxin", I'd bet we would see a spike in sales for the One Step (which sounds great by the way).

I don't see that Patricia Barber selling out because...well...it's Patricia Barber. I love Impex's work but their curation is truly puzzling. They do cool stuff like Kenny Dorham's Matador and some Three Blind Mice titles but then seem to do all of Patricia Barber's discography as expensive one steps that don't sell.

Some of these aren't selling out quickly because of the title choices, pure and simple. Whether it's titles that don't benefit from the one step process, or titles that already have tons of AAA reissues out there (and ones that are substantially cheaper). People are tired of seeing the same uninspired titles over and over and over again.

The MoFi one steps may have trouble selling because of the digital step now. They have already had trouble selling because of the title selections and flippers aren't buying them as much because resale on the last bunch have all been pretty bad. I think nearly everything from Paul Simon onwards can be purchased for retail or less. Saw someone selling the Paul Simon one step for $70 on the hoffman classifieds last week.

If companies put out great titles as AAA one steps, they will sell out. A&R is more to blame, IMO, than people not being interested in the one step process.

I'm with you that the curation is the issue over the process (though I agree with Anthony that I think MoFi effed up in terms of handling and it will hurt them) but I honestly wonder how many titles exist that labels can reasonably acquire to sell substantial quantities using the process. Taking your post and jbraswell's together, we can probably safely rule out

• Albums with very strong, cheaper AAA pressings actively available.
• Albums with niche market spaces
• Albums with really good and inexpensive original pressings
• Albums without decent enough tape quality (or no tapes at all) to survive the one step processing requirements
• Albums that can't be licensed at a reasonable enough cost to make this a profitable venture.
• Albums that 5000-10000 individuals aren't willing to pony up three figures to have a definitive version of in their collection

Even looking at MoFi one steps at major premiums now - does that Monk's Dream have as much success if the acclaimed Impex version was available simultaneously? What's Going On if the KG Cut existed. I assume the Simon is suffering not just because of the digital step but also because unless you love that particular Paul Simon album, there's a pretty well received RKS Cut that exists (albeit hard to find now I think) and a bajillion good enough original copies out there.

They should probably consider tapering down print runs pretty dramatically on One-Steps - not that false scarcity is a good thing but similarly five thousand copies of Patricia Barber or James Taylor's GH sitting in a warehouse isn't either...

 

[MikeH]

We'll see I guess.
This Thriller release will be a good sample for a market test.

Mainly the production qtys of one steps are going up while the demand doesn't seem to be following.
I don't think the AP Relaxin had anything to do with sales but it's so subjective no one really knows for sure.

Now, older releases are off the table because just about everything that is no longer in production will hold the market pricing.
Rare is rare and people fork out money for it.

Nearly every comment on every forum when Relaxin was announced was "AP is reissuing an AAA copy of Relaxin for $40 so I'll just get that". It absolutely cannibalized sales of the One Step. Craft started production on the one step two years ago, then decided to let AP reissue the Prestige catalogue.

I'm also not so sure that Thriller will be a good market test given the negativity toward MoFi right now and the fact that they are doing 40,000 copies alongside other anniversary reissues. Even before the whole DSD thing, 40k copies never made any sense to me.

I'll be honest.
I can't tell the difference between a really well mastered BNC that is on a "quality" pressing (free from defects) vs an expensive 1 step.
There's not enough there to say OMG. You can totally tell this is a one step. It sounds 5x better.
Of course different titles and yadda yadda.
I think more people are seeing it but there will always be the buyers out there..


Hoffman told his base that one steps are a waste of money.
Talk about the air being sucked out of the room. Haha

The BN Classics and Tone Poets are great value. But the Mingus, Monk and Dylan one steps blow any other copies i have heard of them out of the water. I don't see how there is any denying that those pressings sound better than any other existing pressings (except maybe super clean OGs, which in most cases are not easy to get or are way more expensive in mint condition). As you all know, I'm a huge KG fan and love his work on the BNs. But I think the Disk Union Original Master Series pressings he did are better than the MMJs and the BN Classic/TPs, and the Mingus and Monk one steps are even better than all of them. Any time I sit down and listen to those, I'm honestly blown away at how good they sound. Whether or not the difference is 5x better price-wise is a whole different topic that's not worth getting into haha.

FWIW, Hoffman has a huge MoFi grudge because they never hired him. He thinks every record they ever made sounds bad. But Hoffman isn't wrong about the one step process being magical. A lot of variables go into good sounding records. If you have a poorly produced album, then a one step isn't going to make it sound better. The Tapestry one step, in my opinion, reveals a lot of flaws in the original recording. And maybe it's not the one step process itself that makes the one steps sound so great. It very may well be something else in the chain, or the supervinyl formulation, etc. But the sum of the parts on many of those one steps is REALLY great.

If you take everything Hoffman says to be fact, then you're gonna be misled on a lot of stuff. The guy is like Fremer when it comes to grudges and would rather push his own agendas than facts. He has always hated MoFi and is probably thrilled with what is going on with them right now. He banned the MoFi engineers awhile back because Rob LoVerde went on the site and called Hoffman out for making up stuff about releases he was involved in. In retrospect, it's pretty funny/ironic that the MoFi guys were correcting Hoffman about sources for some releases, but still...

 

[Colonel4Bin]

I think a lot of it has to do with costs, too. I cannot afford to keep buying $125 albums, so unless I really like it I ain't buying it. I know I'm not alone here.

I also think what MoFi is doing with one-steps is a bit overkill, whereas Craft, AP, and such have more interesting titles and not as many. And as far as the numbers MoFi is pressing, its a bit too much IMO. I think the sweet spot is 5-7,500 of a given title.

 

[MikeH]

Outside of the current One-Step debacle, MoFi was getting greedy, meaning, everyone glommed on to the One-Steps, it wasn't just "audiophiles" anymore, they cracked mainstream so to speak. They. MoFi, also glommed on to that and started slating all these One-Step releases. One-Steps, again, before all the hu-ha, were special because they came out "every so often" and not in huge qty.

I own 2 One-Steps, one that is almost certainly digital and I knew that going in, got it at an acceptable price and I'm happy with it because it's one of my all time favorite albums...............and it sound amazing. MoFi could have started weening the public into the digital chain, but they knew damn well that AAA was THE selling point on One-Steps.

They could have, with the announcement of the VH catalog, stated something to the effect of "with changing times and lack of availability of original tapes, we've made the decision to introduce a digital aspect to our One-Step process to insure the best quality sound on vinyl", then go through the whole "why", even with a digital step, it's the best possible sound on vinyl and why it differs from CD's, SACDs and streaming.

They fucked up, they didn't give their customer base the respect they deserved and just looked at them as rabid consumers. I've never felt the audible difference was there, based on price, between the OMR's and One-Steps, but that also begs the question of what consumers are playing these albums on. I still contend that if you have an entry level system, you're not getting the cost back in what you're hearing when purchasing a One-Step, yes, it will sound great, but your only getting a percentage of the quality built in, so to speak.............and that's a completely different can of worms

All that said, I've leaned towards Acoustic Sound and other companies for AAA pressings, if for no other reason than "bang for your buck" when it comes to pricing. Even then, it has to be a real "want" to plop down $60 on an album for me know a days.

MoFi definitely fucked up with not telling people about the digital step sooner. No denying that at all.

I'm kinda curious what makes some of the one steps sound better than other releases though. The ones I mentioned above (Monk, Mingus and Dylan) all sound better than any other copy I have heard. I got those all at retail and would again now even after learning about DSD.

I think a lot of it has to do with costs, too. I cannot afford to keep buying $125 albums, so unless I really like it I ain't buying it. I know I'm not alone here.

I also think what MoFi is doing with one-steps is a bit overkill, whereas Craft, AP, and such have more interesting titles and not as many. And as far as the numbers MoFi is pressing, its a bit too much IMO. I think the sweet spot is 5-7,500 of a given title.

I agree with you and @AnthonyI about the number of pressings too. They got/are getting greedy with how many they are pressing. But to be fair to them, up until now, every one step title has sold out from them. MoFi doesn't really care about secondary market prices on them as long as they sell out of their pressing counts.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Craft lowers their pressing count next time because of how Relaxin hasn't sold out. But maybe they just realize it's a hard sell because of the AP reissue coming out and whatever title they do next hopefully doesn't have an in-print AP or other audiophile release.

 

[Jbraswell]

Nearly every comment on every forum when Relaxin was announced was "AP is reissuing an AAA copy of Relaxin for $40 so I'll just get that". It absolutely cannibalized sales of the One Step. Craft started production on the one step two years ago, then decided to let AP reissue the Prestige catalogue.

I'm also not so sure that Thriller will be a good market test given the negativity toward MoFi right now and the fact that they are doing 40,000 copies alongside other anniversary reissues. Even before the whole DSD thing, 40k copies never made any sense to me.


The BN Classics and Tone Poets are great value. But the Mingus, Monk and Dylan one steps blow any other copies i have heard of them out of the water. I don't see how there is any denying that those pressings sound better than any other existing pressings (except maybe super clean OGs, which in most cases are not easy to get or are way more expensive in mint condition). As you all know, I'm a huge KG fan and love his work on the BNs. But I think the Disk Union Original Master Series pressings he did are better than the MMJs and the BN Classic/TPs, and the Mingus and Monk one steps are even better than all of them. Any time I sit down and listen to those, I'm honestly blown away at how good they sound. Whether or not the difference is 5x better price-wise is a whole different topic that's not worth getting into haha.

FWIW, Hoffman has a huge MoFi grudge because they never hired him. He thinks every record they ever made sounds bad. But Hoffman isn't wrong about the one step process being magical. A lot of variables go into good sounding records. If you have a poorly produced album, then a one step isn't going to make it sound better. The Tapestry one step, in my opinion, reveals a lot of flaws in the original recording. And maybe it's not the one step process itself that makes the one steps sound so great. It very may well be something else in the chain, or the supervinyl formulation, etc. But the sum of the parts on many of those one steps is REALLY great.

If you take everything Hoffman says to be fact, then you're gonna be misled on a lot of stuff. The guy is like Fremer when it comes to grudges and would rather push his own agendas than facts. He has always hated MoFi and is probably thrilled with what is going on with them right now. He banned the MoFi engineers awhile back because Rob LoVerde went on the site and called Hoffman out for making up stuff about releases he was involved in. In retrospect, it's pretty funny/ironic that the MoFi guys were correcting Hoffman about sources for some releases, but still...

Yeah everyone has their biases in one form or another, especially on the internets. SH did come out of the gate defending the MOFI engineers as some of the best in the world. So I think he can be a rational person for the most part. Comparing him to Fremer is just wrong LMAO
He is one of the top mastering engineers and has a wealth of technical knowledge.

So based on your thought, the AP Relaxin demand is pent up and should sell out very quickly when released.... ? But doesn't that prove a point that folks are saying the one step purchase is not worth it??

 

[Colonel4Bin]

I agree with you and @AnthonyI about the number of pressings too. They got/are getting greedy with how many they are pressing. But to be fair to them, up until now, every one step title has sold out from them. MoFi doesn't really care about secondary market prices on them as long as they sell out of their pressing counts.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Craft lowers their pressing count next time because of how Relaxin hasn't sold out. But maybe they just realize it's a hard sell because of the AP reissue coming out and whatever title they do next hopefully doesn't have an in-print AP or other audiophile release.

I'm not sure if they misread the market or their consumers, but I think a lot of those titles selling as well as they did had to do with COVID flippers. A lot of people were buying two or more, and we know it wasn't just those titles but so many others that can now be had pretty easily with no delays. Hell, I saw one guy on FB comment that he bought 99 one steps of a title during the Target sale thinking it would never ship and one day he came home to 99 one-steps. People have definitely scaled that back but I think MoFi saw their titles selling out like and ran with it, not really understanding how many individual consumers there were.

 

[AnthonyI]

FWIW, Hoffman has a huge MoFi grudge because they never hired him. He thinks every record they ever made sounds bad. But Hoffman isn't wrong about the one step process being magical. A lot of variables go into good sounding records. If you have a poorly produced album, then a one step isn't going to make it sound better. The Tapestry one step, in my opinion, reveals a lot of flaws in the original recording. And maybe it's not the one step process itself that makes the one steps sound so great. It very may well be something else in the chain, or the supervinyl formulation, etc. But the sum of the parts on many of those one steps is REALLY great.

That's the thing, while there is a group that is just up in arms about these not being "as advertised", and I get that, I think most are more upset about pricing relative to what you're getting. To your point, "the best sounding version" of something shouldn't have an * next to it based on if it's AAA or not, and this is taking the cost out of the equation.

It's the "if I buy A based on what your telling me, and A turns out to be something completely different". As a company you can sell whatever you want at whatever price you want, but you can't lie about what your selling. At that point the consumer can decide if it's "worth" the cost or not regardless of how you made it.

The Nightfly is one of my all time favorite albums, I had, and PIFed, my OG copy. The One-Step is leaps and bounds beyond any pressing I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot, because even VG+ copies of this album sound phenomenal. But it's also one of the best produced and mastered albums ever made, so it does depend on the album, both monetarily and emotionally.

In my opinion MJ's 40K will be the biggest bite in MoFi's ass, for numerous reasons, and it could have been avoided.

 

[AnthonyI]

MoFi definitely fucked up with not telling people about the digital step sooner. No denying that at all.

I'm kinda curious what makes some of the one steps sound better than other releases though. The ones I mentioned above (Monk, Mingus and Dylan) all sound better than any other copy I have heard. I got those all at retail and would again now even after learning about DSD.


I agree with you and @AnthonyI about the number of pressings too. They got/are getting greedy with how many they are pressing. But to be fair to them, up until now, every one step title has sold out from them. MoFi doesn't really care about secondary market prices on them as long as they sell out of their pressing counts.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Craft lowers their pressing count next time because of how Relaxin hasn't sold out. But maybe they just realize it's a hard sell because of the AP reissue coming out and whatever title they do next hopefully doesn't have an in-print AP or other audiophile release.

Ya, but going from lets say 10K to 40K on, one, a niche product and two a Thriller reissue?? Was anyone really jacked up about a Thriller reissue, lol

 

[MikeH]

So based on your thought, the AP Relaxin demand is pent up and should sell out very quickly when released.... ? But doesn't that prove a point that folks are saying the one step purchase is not worth it??

Worth, when it comes to records, is completely subjective. I'd bet that most people would rather buy the AP Relaxin because it's hardly everybody's favorite Miles record, so some of the benefits you may get from the One Step likely don't outweigh the price differential. It's all relative. I don't think that something not selling out means that the one step process is "worthless".

I absolutely love the Eastern Sounds - Yusef Lateef one step that Craft did. The OJC sounds great, but the one step is on another level on my system. It's probably a top 10 or 15 jazz album for me. So for me it's worth it and I'd purchase it at cost 10/10 times over the OJC. On the flip side, the Hendrix Are You Experienced UHQR isn't "worth" $125 to me (i know it's not a one step but...). I'm perfectly happy with the Hendrix family pressing.

The one steps really shine on albums that are dynamic and have quiet passages. the noise floor is really impressive to me.

 

[MikeH]

Joe Jackson "Look Sharp!" 180G LP (OUT OF STOCK)

Original Release Date: 1979 Original Label: A&M OUT OF STOCK 100% Analog Mastering From Real Analog Tapes! Mastered by Kevin Gray At Cohearent Audio Dead Quiet 180-Gram Vinyl Pressed At RTI "SHARP" Looking Old Style Jacket Printed By Stoughton

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Joe Jackson "Night and Day" 180G LP (OUT OF STOCK)

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restocks from Intervention!

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[Jbraswell]

Worth, when it comes to records, is completely subjective. I'd bet that most people would rather buy the AP Relaxin because it's hardly everybody's favorite Miles record, so some of the benefits you may get from the One Step likely don't outweigh the price differential. It's all relative. I don't think that something not selling out means that the one step process is "worthless".

I absolutely love the Eastern Sounds - Yusef Lateef one step that Craft did. The OJC sounds great, but the one step is on another level on my system. It's probably a top 10 or 15 jazz album for me. So for me it's worth it and I'd purchase it at cost 10/10 times over the OJC. On the flip side, the Hendrix Are You Experienced UHQR isn't "worth" $125 to me (i know it's not a one step but...). I'm perfectly happy with the Hendrix family pressing.

The one steps really shine on albums that are dynamic and have quiet passages. the noise floor is really impressive to me.

It all goes back to the issue at hand.
Will the market support one steps or not going forward?

I am not saying they can't sound good, and I really enjoy the two I have.
Would I buy them again if given an opportunity, probably not.
But have enough people bought into it to keep future releases going?
I don't think so. That's my rationale for the bubble bursting.

 

[MikeH]

It all goes back to the issue at hand.
Will the market support one steps or not going forward?

I am not saying they can't sound good, and I really enjoy the two I have.
Would I buy them again if given an opportunity, probably not.
But have enough people bought into it to keep future releases going?
I don't think so. That's my rationale for the bubble bursting.

I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. People have said the vinyl bubble will burst for the last few years and nothing of the sort has happened. People said VMP would go bankrupt after raising their prices. They have more subscribers than ever. People said AP and MoFI would have trouble selling albums when they raised prices. They sell more than ever. Mikefromtheingroovephoenixarizona said he's selling more MoFis now after the news broke that they used DSD than he was before.

I could see them lowering numbers back to 7-10k. But once the whole MoFi thing blows over (which I think it will), they will sell out again if the titles selections are good. People will get pulled back in. I don't doubt for a second that if Craft did a $110 one step of a CCR or REM title, for example, that it would sell out really quickly.

I think we all agree that 40k Thrillers is absurd though.

 

[MikeH]

more intervention restocks!

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[Jbraswell]

War’s Greatest Hits (gold KG cut) showed up today from Newbury Comics! Pretty excited it shipped (and super fast at that). Happy to have some War back in my collection. I had the first couple with Eric Burdon and World is a Ghetto but sold them all in years past. This’ll do for now! Sounds great so far.

I've been meaning to ask about this one.
I think the VC's lit up after KG revealed he cut this on his tubey system for the first time.
I think prices have gotten silly since then, nothing unusual LoL.

 

[MikeH]

I've been meaning to ask about this one.
I think the VC's lit up after KG revealed he cut his on this tubey system for the first time.
I think prices have gotten silly since then, nothing unusual LoL.

the cult of boomboom is alive and well!

i might swing by some locals this week and see if they might have it in stock still...

 

[Colonel4Bin]

the cult of boomboom is alive and well!

i might swing by some locals this week and see if they might have it in stock still...

Seriously, anytime I see his name associated with something I am immediately intrigued. Same with BG. Came across this 80s reggae album I never heard of the other day at a local and saw BG's name on the back. Immediate purchase for $10 and glad I did!

Matuzalem Featuring Iya Ebun And Gimbu Khafani - Nation Rise

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1987 Vinyl release of "Nation Rise" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

 

[Portland Sheriff]

I think we all agree that 40k Thrillers is absurd though.

Do we know whether they’re press all 40k at once? They may hedge their bet and not press all at once.

 

[Jbraswell]

the cult of boomboom is alive and well!

i might swing by some locals this week and see if they might have it in stock still...

It was a pretty limited run from 2020 RSD. Might get lucky out there

 

[MikeH]

It was a pretty limited run from 2020 RSD. Might get lucky out there

Seems limited to 5,500 and it's a RSD first so should get released wider at some point. Looks like on discogs it had 2020 and 2021 pressings.

 

[MikeH]

Do we know whether they’re press all 40k at once? They may hedge their bet and not press all at once.

My thoughts too...kinda like VMP with Grateful Dead anthology.