Definitive Audiophile pressings

MikeH said:
It’s still a different mastering though. CD/digital mastering will always be different to the vinyl.
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Agree for more specialty type releases. But most mass market new stuff you don't even, know the mastering detail so it's not a major care about for me.
 
Jbraswell said:
Agree for more specialty type releases. But most mass market new stuff you don't even, know the mastering detail so it's not a major care about for me.
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Actually it is the new stuff, not the older reissues that are most at issue. A typical new recotrding gets pumped up with compression at the mastering stage, but always, a vinyl master must also be created with much less compression. Those crushed digital files simply can't be used to cut vinyl.

I have two fine examples right here that the artists sent me, the actual marked cutting master. As always with a cutting master digital file, there are two tracks - side A and side B. They are not brickwalled.

It's all in the listening. Not that I wish to set anyone on to another path to financial misery.

Personally, if I can get a fairly un - brickwalled 24 bit file - and I'm not expecting zero compression, which is impractical - I will probably stick wiith that.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Actually it is the new stuff, not the older reissues that are most at issue. A typical new recotrding gets pumped up with compression at the mastering stage, but always, a vinyl master must also be created with much less compression. Those crushed digital files simply can't be used to cut vinyl.

I have two fine examples right here that the artists sent me, the actual marked cutting master. As always with a cutting master digital file, there are two tracks - side A and side B. They are not brickwalled.

It's all in the listening. Not that I wish to set anyone on to another path to financial misery.

Personally, if I can get a fairly un - brickwalled 24 bit file - and I'm not expecting zero compression, which is impractical - I will probably stick wiith that.
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We can move this to the dark side but I am interested to see if anyone has tried these Dolby Atmos and Sony 360 Reality Audio on Tidal.

This read that came through email this weekend peaked some interest.

magicvinyldigital.net

Alicia Keys ‎– Alicia ( Vinyl White, Cd, Hi-Res, Qobuz, Amazon, Tidal 360RA binaural)

Alicia is the 7th Album of Alicia Keys. The release of this album has been postponed a few months because of Covid19, from March 2020 to September 2020.In the current context, a song takes a new tu…
magicvinyldigital.net magicvinyldigital.net

I've been reading his reports for several months now. More than once the vinyl was very close to the hi res but this is the closest I've seen yet.
 
AnthonyI said:
I like Steve's take on the MoFi stuff (10:07 if you want to skip the other stuff)

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I like this guy, and he is dead on. Remastering is intended to change the way the master sounds. Too many fall into the trap of ' it sound better...best I have ever heard...definitive...etc.' when what they are experiencing is hearing the record with a new take on how it sounds, making it fresh and new - but only better because it presents the music in a way the listener hasn't heard before. After the frehness wears off, it may very well be that an earlier version sounds subjectively better to a listener.

And his take on the Mofi matter is also dead on. Subjectively - it sounds fabulous. The rest - who cares except a few absolutists?
 
Those in the states that order from Acoustic Sounds often, if it says "in stock" - they mean that you right? How long after I order should I expect an order to arrive. I'm considering ordering some to my hotel while I'm in the States and would like to time it correctly.
 
uvwxVinyl said:
Those in the states that order from Acoustic Sounds often, if it says "in stock" - they mean that you right? How long after I order should I expect an order to arrive. I'm considering ordering some to my hotel while I'm in the States and would like to time it correctly.
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3 business days from order date is normal. Some deliveries are on Saturday with FedEx
 
uvwxVinyl said:
Those in the states that order from Acoustic Sounds often, if it says "in stock" - they mean that you right? How long after I order should I expect an order to arrive. I'm considering ordering some to my hotel while I'm in the States and would like to time it correctly.
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honestly, they have been absolutely all over the place lately. i've had some orders take a few days, others have taken weeks. seems to depend on how busy they are. i had a prestige AP mono shipment notification 2 weeks ago and it just got here on friday.
 
RHANDMJ said:
I like this guy, and he is dead on. Remastering is intended to change the way the master sounds. Too many fall into the trap of ' it sound better...best I have ever heard...definitive...etc.' when what they are experiencing is hearing the record with a new take on how it sounds, making it fresh and new - but only better because it presents the music in a way the listener hasn't heard before. After the frehness wears off, it may very well be that an earlier version sounds subjectively better to a listener.

And his take on the Mofi matter is also dead on. Subjectively - it sounds fabulous. The rest - who cares except a few absolutists?
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I agree to a certain extent.
Devil's advocate.
Did the first engineer in effect change the sound too?
It's kind of a question of who stays truest to the tape and that's a pandora's box situational to every release.
AnthonyI said:
I like Steve's take on the MoFi stuff (10:07 if you want to skip the other stuff)

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The TT setup was killer at the end.
Also another vote for the DL-103R carts. They are fantastic.
 
uvwxVinyl said:
Those in the states that order from Acoustic Sounds often, if it says "in stock" - they mean that you right? How long after I order should I expect an order to arrive. I'm considering ordering some to my hotel while I'm in the States and would like to time it correctly.
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Unless you have a 2-week stay at your hotel, I wouldn t chance it. Their packing and shipping speeds are inconsistent.
 
Jbraswell said:
I agree to a certain extent.
Devil's advocate.
Did the first engineer in effect change the sound too?
It's kind of a question of who stays truest to the tape and that's a pandora's box situational to every release.

The TT setup was killer at the end.
Also another vote for the DL-103R carts. They are fantastic.
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OK - devil's advocate back!

The original mastering engineer had the guidance of the producer and in many cases approval of the artist.

In that context, it's not about staying true to the tape - in most cases, you don't really want that. The tape presents the master mix to reel to reel, presumably the mix and consequent adjustments the producer and artist worked on. Then, in the first transfer to lacquer, the mastering engineer makes adjustments to make it sound as good as possible on the medium - vinyl, in this case, and that gets approved by the producer and possibly artist.

So - of course, the first engineer changed the sound. But the difference is that it was done to suit the producer and artist intent and preferences.

So, IMO, anything after that cannot be definitive, unless approved by the artist - and even then, later choices may not always be the best without the producer's guiding ears.

But now comes the problem at hand. First, we have better mastering technology today, and we no longer need to consider cheap turntables in mastering. So the notion of being faithful to the original is out the window. Second, Teo Macero, George Martin, Alfred Lion etc. etc. are no longer here, nor are Miles, Lennon, Coltrane and so many others. So the notion of producer and artist approved is off the table.

Third, we have the condundrum that we can do more with that master tape today. We aren't doing a mass produced product, and we can get more from the tape and make better mastering choices. But that automatically means that it is the mastering engineer's interpretation - and that will always be subjective. That's why another engineer can come along, make new, different choices and - like magic - we have a new, best it has ever sounded version. But in fact, it is just different subjective choices.

No one is true to the tape, in the sense of making a straight, faithful transfer to another medium. It is always an interpretation.

I look at it like this. We have hundreds of years of classical scores, on written paper. Those are the masters and the artist intentions are very clearly marked all over them. That is definitive. But that does not mean there is not room for interpretation, or even choices that suit modern tastes and performing practices subjectively better. But that means that there is no, one, single definitive performance, even though for many decades, record labels have made the claim that one or another are.
 
RHANDMJ said:
OK - devil's advocate back!

The original mastering engineer had the guidance of the producer and in many cases approval of the artist.

In that context, it's not about staying true to the tape - in most cases, you don't really want that. The tape presents the master mix to reel to reel, presumably the mix and consequent adjustments the producer and artist worked on. Then, in the first transfer to lacquer, the mastering engineer makes adjustments to make it sound as good as possible on the medium - vinyl, in this case, and that gets approved by the producer and possibly artist.

So - of course, the first engineer changed the sound. But the difference is that it was done to suit the producer and artist intent and preferences.

So, IMO, anything after that cannot be definitive, unless approved by the artist - and even then, later choices may not always be the best without the producer's guiding ears.

But now comes the problem at hand. First, we have better mastering technology today, and we no longer need to consider cheap turntables in mastering. So the notion of being faithful to the original is out the window. Second, Teo Macero, George Martin, Alfred Lion etc. etc. are no longer here, nor are Miles, Lennon, Coltrane and so many others. So the notion of producer and artist approved is off the table.

Third, we have the condundrum that we can do more with that master tape today. We aren't doing a mass produced product, and we can get more from the tape and make better mastering choices. But that automatically means that it is the mastering engineer's interpretation - and that will always be subjective. That's why another engineer can come along, make new, different choices and - like magic - we have a new, best it has ever sounded version. But in fact, it is just different subjective choices.

No one is true to the tape, in the sense of making a straight, faithful transfer to another medium. It is always an interpretation.

I look at it like this. We have hundreds of years of classical scores, on written paper. Those are the masters and the artist intentions are very clearly marked all over them. That is definitive. But that does not mean there is not room for interpretation, or even choices that suit modern tastes and performing practices subjectively better. But that means that there is no, one, single definitive performance, even though for many decades, record labels have made the claim that one or another are.
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So many variables going on across a spectrum of music.

I think this is what makes the BN series so special. KG says he doesn't even touch the RVG mastering sometimes because the tape is that good. Dunann was another really consistent one.
Columbia is right up there and stronger in some areas, maybe they had more money to throw at it back then.


Maybe it's not the "Original Master Recording" people should be after but the "Original Master Sound" that should be the selling point. Haha that would be a shit show.

I keep saying people are continually coming around to realizing those OGs sound pretty damn good in many cases and a lot of times it's a $5 bin buy.
 
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