Movies

I saw Killers of the Flower Moon earlier today. Definitely enjoyed it, even though it is bleak and brutal. This theater though…the past 3 times I’ve been there something has gone wrong. This time, the movie had already started even though I showed up right on time. Not sure how much of it I missed, but it was pretty frustrating. There are always also like 25 mins of previews so I’m not sure when those even started. It must have been half an hour or so before the actual showtime.

will say, i was a little hesitant going into this movie. Mostly because to handle such a sensitive, important subject matter…I worried a white person’s perspective just might not be the right fit. In some places, I felt like this maybe hurt the film, but in others I think it helps it in a way. Because it is about the deep atrocities from white people - and Scorsese loves to make films about bad people. And here there is no hiding that these are truly awful, murderous, irredeemable people. Presumably, this is likely a film for more of a white audience, so to tell the story in this way - a true, upsetting, depressing story - kinda works to its benefit.

Yet in other ways, I wanted more from the perspectives of the Osage people. Mollie is an incredible person and I feel we don’t get enough from her pov. It is there, but not all the way through. I read some quotes from someone who worked as an Osage consultant who had mixed feelings about the film. Although he doesn’t say anything overwhelmingly negative, he does say this is not a film for Osage people which I get. That would be a different film. A better one? We will never know. But what we have is definitely a film from the perspective of a white person, trying to tell the story as accurately as he can - which even itself seems to be wrapped up in some sense of white guilt. I think this comes through at the end, and it works surprisingly well.

And now I’ve written a lot about this and in a lot ways I feel even conflicted about talking about it because I have no say on this really. It’s not my story. I just feared the worst, but the final product does appear to be a more measured, considered film. The final scene has a lot running through it that I think underlines a lot of the points of the film itself - and all the messy feelings white people might have wrapped up in it.

That all said, it’s a great film. The running time didn’t affect me one bit. I think it utilizes it so well, telling a tight but epic story. It reminds me of The Irishman a little, although they are pretty different films. But the pace, mood, and editing really seem similar. I saw it in IMAX also, which was just phenomenal to look at (although I could hear Taylor Swift’s movie bumping next door). Also I forgot Jason Isbell was in this! And Jack White has a cameo at the end. But the highlight has to be Lily Gladstone. I am definitely just drawn into the way she plays the character. I am still absorbing a lot of it as a whole, but it’s one of the best movies I’ve seen in a theater this year - even with my sometimes complicated feelings.
 
Bennnnn said:
I saw Killers of the Flower Moon earlier today. Definitely enjoyed it, even though it is bleak and brutal. This theater though…the past 3 times I’ve been there something has gone wrong. This time, the movie had already started even though I showed up right on time. Not sure how much of it I missed, but it was pretty frustrating. There are always also like 25 mins of previews so I’m not sure when those even started. It must have been half an hour or so before the actual showtime.

will say, i was a little hesitant going into this movie. Mostly because to handle such a sensitive, important subject matter…I worried a white person’s perspective just might not be the right fit. In some places, I felt like this maybe hurt the film, but in others I think it helps it in a way. Because it is about the deep atrocities from white people - and Scorsese loves to make films about bad people. And here there is no hiding that these are truly awful, murderous, irredeemable people. Presumably, this is likely a film for more of a white audience, so to tell the story in this way - a true, upsetting, depressing story - kinda works to its benefit.

Yet in other ways, I wanted more from the perspectives of the Osage people. Mollie is an incredible person and I feel we don’t get enough from her pov. It is there, but not all the way through. I read some quotes from someone who worked as an Osage consultant who had mixed feelings about the film. Although he doesn’t say anything overwhelmingly negative, he does say this is not a film for Osage people which I get. That would be a different film. A better one? We will never know. But what we have is definitely a film from the perspective of a white person, trying to tell the story as accurately as he can - which even itself seems to be wrapped up in some sense of white guilt. I think this comes through at the end, and it works surprisingly well.

And now I’ve written a lot about this and in a lot ways I feel even conflicted about talking about it because I have no say on this really. It’s not my story. I just feared the worst, but the final product does appear to be a more measured, considered film. The final scene has a lot running through it that I think underlines a lot of the points of the film itself - and all the messy feelings white people might have wrapped up in it.

That all said, it’s a great film. The running time didn’t affect me one bit. I think it utilizes it so well, telling a tight but epic story. It reminds me of The Irishman a little, although they are pretty different films. But the pace, mood, and editing really seem similar. I saw it in IMAX also, which was just phenomenal to look at (although I could hear Taylor Swift’s movie bumping next door). Also I forgot Jason Isbell was in this! And Jack White has a cameo at the end. But the highlight has to be Lily Gladstone. I am definitely just drawn into the way she plays the character. I am still absorbing a lot of it as a whole, but it’s one of the best movies I’ve seen in a theater this year - even with my sometimes complicated feelings.
Click to expand...
We usually get 10-15 min of previews, which start at the actual showtime on the ticket
 
Bennnnn said:
I saw Killers of the Flower Moon earlier today. Definitely enjoyed it, even though it is bleak and brutal. This theater though…the past 3 times I’ve been there something has gone wrong. This time, the movie had already started even though I showed up right on time. Not sure how much of it I missed, but it was pretty frustrating. There are always also like 25 mins of previews so I’m not sure when those even started. It must have been half an hour or so before the actual showtime.

will say, i was a little hesitant going into this movie. Mostly because to handle such a sensitive, important subject matter…I worried a white person’s perspective just might not be the right fit. In some places, I felt like this maybe hurt the film, but in others I think it helps it in a way. Because it is about the deep atrocities from white people - and Scorsese loves to make films about bad people. And here there is no hiding that these are truly awful, murderous, irredeemable people. Presumably, this is likely a film for more of a white audience, so to tell the story in this way - a true, upsetting, depressing story - kinda works to its benefit.

Yet in other ways, I wanted more from the perspectives of the Osage people. Mollie is an incredible person and I feel we don’t get enough from her pov. It is there, but not all the way through. I read some quotes from someone who worked as an Osage consultant who had mixed feelings about the film. Although he doesn’t say anything overwhelmingly negative, he does say this is not a film for Osage people which I get. That would be a different film. A better one? We will never know. But what we have is definitely a film from the perspective of a white person, trying to tell the story as accurately as he can - which even itself seems to be wrapped up in some sense of white guilt. I think this comes through at the end, and it works surprisingly well.

And now I’ve written a lot about this and in a lot ways I feel even conflicted about talking about it because I have no say on this really. It’s not my story. I just feared the worst, but the final product does appear to be a more measured, considered film. The final scene has a lot running through it that I think underlines a lot of the points of the film itself - and all the messy feelings white people might have wrapped up in it.

That all said, it’s a great film. The running time didn’t affect me one bit. I think it utilizes it so well, telling a tight but epic story. It reminds me of The Irishman a little, although they are pretty different films. But the pace, mood, and editing really seem similar. I saw it in IMAX also, which was just phenomenal to look at (although I could hear Taylor Swift’s movie bumping next door). Also I forgot Jason Isbell was in this! And Jack White has a cameo at the end. But the highlight has to be Lily Gladstone. I am definitely just drawn into the way she plays the character. I am still absorbing a lot of it as a whole, but it’s one of the best movies I’ve seen in a theater this year - even with my sometimes complicated feelings.
Click to expand...
So I haven't seen the movie and doubt I will be able to find time for it until it is streaming, but I just recently listened to the book.

Did they explain why the consultant said it isn't a movie for Osage people?

As someone who also certainly can't speak for them, I wonder if it is because of this point made toward the end of the book:

After the story has been told, the writer tells the tale of him researching and finding out additional information. He visits Pawhuska and the Osage Nation Museum. On one wall is a large picture of many members of the tribe alongside prominent white businessmen. He notices that a section is missing and asks the director (a descendant of one of the victims) about it. She said "it's too painful to show, the devil was standing there" She goes in a back room and brings out a print of the full picture and the missing portion is a picture of Hale.

The author summarizes the reason as this:

"The Osage had removed his image, not to forget the murders, as most Americans had, but because they cannot forget."

As he details more of his interactions and research it becomes clear that pretty much everyone in the Osage Nation had someone related to them who was murdered or died under suspicious circumstances and was traumatized even generations later.

He quotes an Osage several generations removed from the time of the murders as saying, "I think somewhere it is in the back of our minds, we may not realize it, but it is there, especially if it was a family member that was killed. You just have it in the back of your head. You don't trust anybody.

In that context, it's hard for me to imagine any Osage wanting to see any version of a movie telling this story, when they cannot avoid already knowing the story and being traumatized by it just by being Osage. The book is certainly not for the Osage, it is for people like me, who don't learn about the majority of our country's atrocities in school.

Sorry to be long winded, but that's what your thoughtful post made me think of. I can't wait to be able to watch it when I have time.
 
Last edited:
dhodo said:
So I haven't seen the movie and doubt I will be able to find time for it until it is streaming, but I just recently listened to the book.

Did they explain why the consultant said it isn't a movie for Osage people?

As someone who also certainly can't speak for them, I wonder if it is because of this point made toward the end of the book:

After the story has been told, the writer tells the tale of him researching and finding out additional information. He visits Pawhuska and the Osage Nation Museum. On one wall is a large picture of many members of the tribe alongside prominent white businessmen. He notices that a section is missing and asks the director (a descendant of one of the victims) about it. She said "it's too painful to show, the devil was standing there" She goes in a back room and brings out a print of the full picture and the missing portion is a picture of Hale.

The author summarizes the reason as this:

"The Osage had removed his image, not to forget the murders, as most Americans had, but because they cannot forget."

As he details more of his interactions and research it becomes clear that pretty much everyone in the Osage Nation had someone related to them who was murdered or died under suspicious circumstances and was traumatized even generations later.

He quotes an Osage several generations removed from the time of the murders as saying, "I think somewhere it is in the back of our minds, we may not realize it, but it is there, especially if it was a family member that was killed. You just have it in the back of your head. You don't trust anybody.

In that context, it's hard for me to imagine any Osage wanting to see any version of a movie telling this story, when they cannot avoid already knowing the story and being traumatized by it just by being Osage. The book is certainly not for the Osage, it is for people like me, who don't learn about the majority of our country's atrocities in school.

Sorry to be long winded, but that's what your thoughtful post made me think of. I can't wait to be able to watch it when I have time.
Click to expand...
That is interesting. I have a digital copy of the book, but I haven't dug into it yet. I think the movie is probably doing a similar thing to the book, in that it is very much a movie for everyone else. That's what the consultant was suggesting. He says it's not for them, it's for everybody. It's I guess more to tell the story to all of us who had no idea about it. What they have included about their culture and community is authentic, but there's not enough of if there to me to get a great sense of who they were. But, that isn't ultimately the point I don't think. It is to have us experience the horrors that they experienced. It's confronting our disgusting, horrible American past.
 
Spider-Man: Far From Home

IMG_7106.jpeg

Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2
Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 1
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The Avengers
Iron Man
Avengers: Infinity War
Black Panther
Captain America: Civil War
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Captain America: The First Avenger
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Thor Ragnarok
Doctor Strange
Avengers: Age Of Ultron
Avengers: Endgame
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 3
Iron Man 2
Captain Marvel
Ant-Man And The Wasp
Ant-Man
Thor: The Dark World
 
Last edited:
ayayrawn said:
Killers of the Flower Moon: some issues with it structure/length wise, but pretty great. Career bests from all the leads. Extremely measured and thoughtful perspective from Marty, who is clearly the goat.
Click to expand...
I felt like Leo was putting a little too much paprika on the sandwich, but generally loved it. Lily Gladstone’s performance is remarkable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top