Civility should matter to you if the person you support is gong to lose because of how uncivil his supporters are being.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
BjorgenFjorgen
Well-Known Member
That's 100% not why he's losing, but go off I guess.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Yea I don’t really agree with this and it’s not like all the Warren supporters would have jumped ship for Bernie.
I already see articles with Ilhan Omar and Trump jumping on this.
Is Warren a little more independent than the mainstream Dems? She seems like she is more outspoken when she disagrees (I like that).
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I misread “long term” I still think it’s privileged and irresponsible to sit out this election if Biden is the candidate.
I don’t think that capitalism was going to be completely upended with a Sanders presidency and I do think that more center-left economic policies will continue to do what they’ve always done.
dbarila
Well-Known Member
As much as I'm a big Bernie supporter and I hate to admit it, I think Biden has a better shot to beat Trump in the general. Bernie has too many people (in both sides) who automatically will write off Sanders as a tax raising socialist. No matter how many times you explain it to them it doesn't matter. My parents are Democrats and all they care about is if Sanders is elected their taxes will go up. To older Democrats, which will probably be more likely to come out and vote, Biden is a safer choice.
sahomerrocks
Well-Known Member
For the Biden endorsements maybe, but it was probably just as simple as they were running out of money and didn't see much more coming in. Warren still has buttloads of cash. People are certainly reasonable to criticize how she obtained all that money (walking back her stance on Super PACs) but CREAM, y'all.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
I ran out of articles on the LA times, but just google LAUSD school board 2020 results.
Its prop public ed vs charters. The charter candidates had millions behind them while pro public has hundreds of thousands and the union walking the neighborhoods.
wokeupnew
Well-Known Member
To be fair, Bernie did not energize enough young voters to vote for him this time around. So if the youth vote will not show up, we need someone who will energize the older population who will be voting. Biden can do that. And like what was already mentioned, older folks are wary about anything related to socialism or higher taxes even if they won’t have their taxes raised necessarily.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
it’s not 100% but I’ve been trying to tell folks on here for a long time that it matters ... at least to people not on the coasts who don’t engage in any conversation let alone one about socialism lightly.
its not everything but its also not insignificant
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Btsvinylfarm
Active Member
Okay, but you could say the same for Bloomberg. Biden could have won even bigger yesterday without Bloomberg siphoning votes.
The Warren thing is an excuse. Bernie had a bad night. Period, plain and simple. Biden barely campaigned in some of the states he won in.
I'm curious your thoughts on the data I shared - both the RCP aggregates in the General for Sanders/Biden, as well as the low youth turnout? Does that not concern you if the goal is to win in November and remove the incumbent? It scares the shit out of me.
I also heard Chuck Todd mention that if she were to Drop out, which may be likely now, the majority of her Base would go to Biden rather than Bernie. Bernie is too progressive for most of her base and Biden is the safe option.
wokeupnew
Well-Known Member
Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.
I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
It’s not an excuse it’s a contributing factor. Yes people will blow it out of proportion. Just like they will with the Bernie bro thing (again a factor) as well as the Dem establishment organizing the establishment vote.
Yes I’m really surprised turnout isn't the same as 2018. It’s worrisome. I think it’s about the botched Impeachment, Muller, and Russia Russia Russia.
I was thinking about the impeachment last night and kind of think Dems shot themselves in the foot by protecting Biden. They wanted their centrist candidate for 2020. The Ukraine stuff is gonna be a factor in the general. Dems just swept it under the rug.
You're the best.
wokeupnew
Well-Known Member
I’ve accepted defeat but now know there’s still a lot to be done.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Yes - so true
Which is why if you engage people not from a place of empathy but from a place of judgement they find it hard to get on your team. People who want social ideals and policies need to take a step back and look in the mirror and tell themselves that it isn't just about being "correct" on the issues it's about how you engage with people.
Btsvinylfarm
Active Member
Hard disagree with all of this.
Impeachment wasn't botched. Trump had more conviction votes than any President in history. It's he only time a member of the Impeached President's party has voted to convict. Support for both the inquiry and impeachment remained strong throughout. And it helped throw the Ukraine stuff to the wayside of a lot of people. It prevented it from being the next "but her emails".
As far as turnout goes, the numbers I've seen show turnout overall was strong (in VA, it nearly doubled 2016 primary turnout). So I don't think this theory holds.
One of the things I have heard from young voters who did not go out and vote is "this is the primary election, it's not the presidential election. It doesn't really matter."
It does matter. I think the primary election is much more important than the presidential election. Especially in states that are clear blue or red states. Because in the presidential election the outcome is known. The state will either be blue or red whether your vote or not. People become numb and feel like their vote really does not matter. But in the primary election your vote has a much greater say. It can help choose who that candidate is in the general election.
I'm very sad to hear young people don't really understand this. And did not come out voting in numbers.
Biden also had the perfect storm to win yesterday.
- Amy K dropped out and endorsed Biden
- Pete B dropped out and endorsed Biden
- Bloomberg got nowhere near the votes that were expected after his high polling last week
- Young voter turnout was very low
- Suburban home owning college educated voters turned out in higher numbers than expected because of fear that Bernie could win this
WUN 4 PREZ