Political Discussion

[DownIsTheNewUp]

[

I didnt say you stated. I'm saying those are common narratives I've been seeing, especially today, and that I'm not grasping these narratives.

Who is the establishment that organized to get Pete and Amy out? How do you know there was also a coordination with the establishment, and not Pete and Amy just realistically seeing they didn't have a path and getting out to get behind a candidate they believed was best?

Everything you type strikes me as either incredibly naive or intentionally disingenuous.

I’m gonna go with the later.

 

[jaycee]

Who is the establishment that organized to get Pete and Amy out? How do you know there was also a coordination with the establishment, and not Pete and Amy just realistically seeing they didn't have a path and getting out to get behind a candidate they believed was best?

Pete and Amy dropped out because they knew they couldn't win aaaaaand they knew that their desire to have centrist (aka establishment) candidate (Biden) win was best if they bailed out before Super Tuesday. Nobody knows if there was a conspiracy to do so organized by the DNC but that is probably something a lot of Bernie followers believe.

People are connecting the dots. Those dots are easy to connect particularly if you a priori believe in a DNC conspiracy

 

[KenKaniff]

I think there were reports of a phone call. But, It doesn't matter if there was a phone call or if it was explicit said to them. They receive their support from the DNC. If they wanted to continue to receive that support they knew what they had to do.

I'm unsure of a phone call. Amy and Klobuchar receive support from DNC and Bernie hasn't?

I think assuming someone's motives is kind of unfair. I think Pete is very smart, saw he wasn't going to get support with minorities, and would rather go out in a good standing rather than sticking around. Then decided to use his voice to get behind who he thought was best.

 

[Dtknuckles]

I'm unsure of a phone call. Amy and Klobuchar receive support from DNC and Bernie hasn't?

I think assuming someone's motives is kind of unfair. I think Pete is very smart, saw he wasn't going to get support with minorities, and would rather go out in a good standing rather than sticking around. Then decided to use his voice to get behind who he thought was best.

Like most things in politics it an be both. He can agree with Biden and understand there will be political pressure on him to do it as well.
The DNC provides infrastructure and funding to politicians seeking to run under their banner. The RNC does also, ask Mitt Romney. Politician also have to play nice with their donors because they won;t get that cushy lobbying or consulting job when they retire.

 

[KenKaniff]

[


Everything you type strikes me as either incredibly naive or intentionally disingenuous.

I’m gonna go with the later.

This is my thing, I'm coming here in good faith and I know discussing politics on the internet is hard. I've been apart of this community on N&G, and before on VMP, and I enjoy and value this platform. I didn't come here to stink the place up. If I was acting in bad faith or looking to stink a place up, I would go elsewhere on the internet and not a place I call home.

I came here for a discussion. I didn't come here to dump on Bernie. I came here to discuss something that I struggled to understand and was seeing if I could gain clarity. I see narratives from all over (not talking about N&G) about Bernie getting screwed by the establishment, the DNC, him getting "robbed" and all sorts of words and situations where Bernie has been treated this election cycle unfairly. I'm questioning it because I don't understand what the unfairness is towards Bernie.

Is this thread for super high information voters only or also people looking to learn and ask questions about things they don't understand?

 

[KenKaniff]

Like most things in politics it an be both. He can agree with Biden and understand there will be political pressure on him to do it as well.
The DNC provides infrastructure and funding to politicians seeking to run under their banner. The RNC does also, ask Mitt Romney. Politician also have to play nice with their donors because they won;t get that cushy lobbying or consulting job when they retire.

Right, so Biden and Sanders (and Pete and Amy in a past tense) run under the DNC and receive that support. In that sense, equal playing field.

 

[Dtknuckles]

I came here for a discussion. I didn't come here to dump on Bernie. I came here to discuss something that I struggled to understand and was seeing if I could gain clarity. I see narratives from all over (not talking about N&G) about Bernie getting screwed by the establishment, the DNC, him getting "robbed" and all sorts of words and situations where Bernie has been treated this election cycle unfairly. I'm questioning it because I don't understand what the unfairness is towards Bernie.

People are emotional because they are frustrated. They had hope it's tough to have that dashed. It's also tough to self assess. Everybody sees all the problems everyone else causes and they don't see the ones they cause. This is humanity.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Right, so Biden and Sanders (and Pete and Amy in a past tense) run under the DNC and receive that support. In that sense, equal playing field.

It's hard to say that they received equal support, but Berine has been doing it by himself for most of his lifetime. He's taken a number of moral stands and will admit when he does something wrong.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

It's hard to say that they received equal support, but Berine has been doing it by himself for most of his lifetime. He's taken a number of moral stands and will admit when he does something wrong.

Sanders isn’t a Democrat which is a commendable choice, but I would not expect the Democratic Party to favor a non-party member over fellow Democrats.

 

[Teeeee]

This is my thing, I'm coming here in good faith and I know discussing politics on the internet is hard. I've been apart of this community on N&G, and before on VMP, and I enjoy and value this platform. I didn't come here to stink the place up. If I was acting in bad faith or looking to stink a place up, I would go elsewhere on the internet and not a place I call home.

I came here for a discussion. I didn't come here to dump on Bernie. I came here to discuss something that I struggled to understand and was seeing if I could gain clarity. I see narratives from all over (not talking about N&G) about Bernie getting screwed by the establishment, the DNC, him getting "robbed" and all sorts of words and situations where Bernie has been treated this election cycle unfairly. I'm questioning it because I don't understand what the unfairness is towards Bernie.

Is this thread for super high information voters only or also people looking to learn and ask questions about things they don't understand?

I can tell you're asking in good faith. Please continue to ask questions. I learn from this thread too.

To everyone: It does get frustrating and can get contentious in here. But I think we all want the country to be better. So whatever we need to do to accomplish that, let's hash it out but remember that we are all in this together.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Sanders isn’t a Democrat which is a commendable choice, but I would not expect the Democratic Party to favor a non-party member over fellow Democrats.

Right, but like the Russia stuff (Trump and Obama) and Ukraine stuff (Biden and Trump) it's all done with a wink and a nod. Do we have proof? No one is dumb enough to leave that stuff around.

 

[AnthonyI]

Bloomy out and endorsing Biden.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Bloomy, lol. I like it

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Can you expand on this? What did the DNC do specifically? Not disputing, just curious what the perception is. Until Monday, it looked to me like the DNC didn't really do much at all for Biden. He wasn't fundraising, he had no ground game in a lot of Super Tuesday states, Steyer and Bloomberg were both dropping serious money in ways that were seen as potentially eating into Biden's voting bloc, and Buttigieg and (to a somewhat lesser extent) Klobuchar seemed like plausible alternatives for the centrist lane. Biden didn't really seem all that viable, and his SC firewall strategy appeared pretty risky right up until Clyburn's endorsement and the surprise payoff.

So, what did the DNC do that gave him an advantage? Is it the timing of the Buttigieg/Klobuchar/Beto endorsements that are somehow seen as unfair coordination by the Bernie set? (For my part, that just seems like normal political party functioning.) Is there something else?

Edit: It took me too long to type this out and I see it's being covered already. I'm not trying to bait you, just wondering if I'm not seeing the reasoning behind the position.

The perception is that the DNC made some phone calls and pressured Pete and Amy our. Maybe some deals were struck. Then a series of endorsements that made a very clear and large impact. There is also the feeling that Warren stayed in it to railroad Bernie (after already kneecapping him with the “women can’t win” comment. She is too smart to have not seen last nights results coming.

The first part (Amy / Pete) is definitely just normal politics— but it’s also the most blatant pushback against a candidate I can recall as a 32 year old.

But the other side of this is millennials watching politicians who supposedly have our back and sell themselves as progressive (Warren / Beto) throw the progressive movement downriver in an effort to advance their careers. And not to Pete or somebody palatable, no, to the guy who is largerly responsible for a lot of the problems we are trying to solve.

And the fact that happened just reinforces the cynicism that has run rampant among people my age ever since Obama bailed out the banks.

Operation Bernie Block Is in Full Effect

Confused about the flurry of news in the presidential race? Here's what it all means

www.google.com

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

 

[KenKaniff]

The perception is that the DNC made some phone calls and pressured Pete and Amy our. Maybe some deals were struck. Then a series of endorsements that made a very clear and large impact. There is also the feeling that Warren stayed in it to railroad Bernie (after already kneecapping him with the “women can’t win” comment. She is too smart to have not seen last nights results coming.

The first part (Amy / Pete) is definitely just normal politics— but it’s also the most blatant pushback against a candidate I can recall as a 32 year old.

But the other side of this is millennials watching politicians who supposedly have our back and sell themselves as progressive (Warren / Beto) throw the progressive movement downriver in an effort to advance their careers. And not to Pete or somebody palatable, no, to the guy who is largerly responsible for a lot of the problems we are trying to solve.

And the fact that happened just reinforces the cynicism that has run rampant among people my age ever since Obama bailed out the banks.

Operation Bernie Block Is in Full Effect

Confused about the flurry of news in the presidential race? Here's what it all means

www.google.com

It's interesting to me that because Amy & Pete got out, as you say, the "perception is the DNC made some phone calls and pressured Pete and Amy out". Not that Pete and Amy saw they didnt have a real path and got out on their own.

But then you say Elizabeth Warren should of seen last nights results coming and got out. So it seems to me if you see certain results coming and get out it's kind of fishy, but if you compete and don't get out, well you should of seen the results coming and got out.

I don't like the negative feeling that Elizabeth Warren should of previously got out - she has every right to compete and if she honestly believed or believes she could win, then so be it. She doesn't owe Bernie. It's a job competition, let the people vote.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

It

It's interesting to me that because Amy & Pete got out, as you say, the "perception is the DNC made some phone calls and pressured Pete and Amy out". Not that Pete and Amy saw they didnt have a real path and got out on their own.

But then you say Elizabeth Warren should of seen last nights results coming and got out. So it seems to me if you see certain results coming and get out it's kind of fishy, but if you compete and don't get out, well you should of seen the results coming and got out.

I don't like the negative feeling that Elizabeth Warren should of previously got out - she has every right to compete and if she honestly believed or believes she could win, then so be it. She doesn't owe Bernie. It's a job competition, let the people vote.

By seen coming I mean that she should have seen that her staying in the race would split the progressive vote and hand Biden victories in places a single progressive would have taken him out (post Amy / Pete).

And it’s not about owing anything to Bernie. It’s about pushing the progressive movement forward as opposed to handing the nomination to a senile jackass who made decision after decision that has helped fill the pockets of corporations at the expense of the middle class and working classes as well as the health of this planet.

I would have been saying the same thing about Bernie if he had failed to pick up a delegate post-Iowa while Warren had been racking up momentum. Once the centrist dropped out, it was time for the progressives to unify. Particularly because Biden was the one who was clearly going to be left standing.

Also, I’m sorry for the snark earlier. Clearly the fact that somebody who recently said “he has no empathy for millennials”, “we can find compromise (on climate change)” and “nothing will change [to a room full of bankers]” has me on edge.

 

[Widget]

Making fun of his stutter. Cool.

 

[dhodo]

Making fun of his stutter. Cool.

I've never heard a stutter described as making you frequently say the wrong thing. That seems to be what the video is pointing out.

 

[Widget]

I've never heard a stutter described as making you frequently say the wrong thing. That seems to be what the video is pointing out.

The Problem with that video is how it just throws everything into one pot. Biden calling Chris Wallace, Chuck? Gaffe. Biden stumbling over a word, having to abandon the sentence and move on to the next thought? Stutter.