Political Discussion

DownIsTheNewUp said:
Dearborn literally stayed home. Young men flipped by wide margins compared to 2016. Latinos and Blacks flipped by wide margins from 2016.

Like what?
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Realistically what do you think she could have done to get those votes? Especially young men who have been radicalized. The cultural issues that flipped them aren’t going to be solved by her talking to Rogan
 
A country that elects Trump twice in three elections over 12 years is very very broken. Democrats disagree that all of those broken parts must be fixed and want to use a surgical scalpel to excise very specific elements instead of being a true populist party and addressing the problems in our government and that face people. They tried to convince people they were a purple party and downplayed change and progress and all it did was lower turnout for Dem voters while Trump voters still grew in size. The people’s vote shouldn’t be the first and last bastion against fascism and oligarchs taking over.
 
Fleetwood-Matt said:
Realistically what do you think she could have done to get those votes? Especially young men who have been radicalized. The cultural issues that flipped them aren’t going to be solved by her talking to Rogan
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I expect her to make an effort to get in front of them. I watched several people flip away from her specifically because they felt it was clear she didnt feel she needed them.

Do you realize there was a cross tab on the website for a wide array of marginalized communities but no tab for men, white men, ext. Which directly reinforced all the ideas that the Perdersons of the world push.

Meanwhile, she simultaneously backed off nearly every progressive economic position that Biden and Bernie had co-labbed together, made it clear she was going to be the same on Isreal, allowed rumors of Lisa Khan's dismissal to run rampant, ext.

I knew exactly nobody in my very large bubble of progressives across 3 states who was excited to vote for her by the end unless they were over the age of 45.
 
swamp said:
A country that elects Trump twice in three elections over 12 years is very very broken. Democrats disagree that all of those broken parts must be fixed and want to use a surgical scalpel to excise very specific elements instead of being a true populist party and addressing the problems in our government and that face people. They tried to convince people they were a purple party and downplayed change and progress and all it did was lower turnout for Dem voters while Trump voters still grew in size. The people’s vote shouldn’t be the first and last bastion against fascism and oligarchs taking over.
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1000%
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
This is exhausting. You literally expect for her to everything to everyone. That’s not how this works. Any hard stance she takes one way would cost her votes in another area.
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No. I expected her to continue building off the momentum Biden had built with progressives and to not completely ignore a segment of the population that Dems have historically needed to win elections.

She banked everything on centrists rejecting Trump.
 
Fleetwood-Matt said:
Realistically what do you think she could have done to get those votes? Especially young men who have been radicalized. The cultural issues that flipped them aren’t going to be solved by her talking to Rogan
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Correct. She ran an amazing campaign, doubly amazing in that she did it in three months.

This is exactly the situation that has brought despots and democratic despots to power for a century. Radicalizing young men, the destitute, the stupid, the uneducated, the illiterate.

Harris never stood a chance, and hate to say it - Biden might have. One disaster debate - and it was a record breaking train wreck - but two good ones after and he could have done it.

Now - no guard rails, a party that is fully compliant being funded by the same dark money that brought Trump to power - no judicial oversight, no state level oversight.

I am a Canadian born in Quebec, during a time when domestic terrorism was being fought (and before Americans knew the word existed) and we looked at America as the greatest country in the world. My son was offered a position at Harvard earlier this year, and turned it down in favor of a European offer. That would never have happened when I was his age - everyone wanted to be in the U.S..

I wouldn't take a position in the U.S. today for any crazy money. Maybe Chicago, New York, California - but probably not. It's just too primitive and superficial.

America needs a new revolution. It needs a hard split. It can do it peacefully or violently - the latter seems to be the preference.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
No. I expected her to continue building off the momentum Biden had built with progressives and to not completely ignore a segment of the population that Dems have historically needed to win elections.

She banked everything on centrists rejecting Trump.
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I feel like she would have done worse had she gone down this path. It’s all conjecture at this point, she lost. I don’t think there is a winning coalition that she could have assembled. Fucking around on the periphery was not going to make a difference.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I feel like she would have done worse had she gone down this path. It’s all conjecture at this point, she lost. I don’t think there is a winning coalition that she could have assembled. Fucking around on the periphery was not going to make a difference.
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I'll go to my grave believing Bernie would have won in 2016.

Perhaps the real damage was done with how Democrats handled 2016 and their response to his 2020 lead (and I don't know if he would have won in 2020 due to noticable shifts in demographics between those two elections).

But the Liz Chenney Republican is not a real chunk of the American voting public. Yet it had an outsized impact on how Kamala marketed herself.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I feel like she would have done worse had she gone down this path. It’s all conjecture at this point, she lost. I don’t think there is a winning coalition that she could have assembled. Fucking around on the periphery was not going to make a difference.
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Agree.

Something to note, having been at the leadership table on several national campaigns.

A real problem is that political parties bring in people as strategists, consultants, pollsters etc. who totally drink the kool-aid and are living in the bubble.

Trump never has. People in the Trump orbit are not true believers - they know they are liars and that their candidate is a liar. The spit out the kool-aid and replace it with all the falsehoods and bile needed, and they know full well they are doing it.

The best thing the Democratic party can do is bring in Republican strategists who have run winning Republican campaigns.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
I'll go to my grave believing Bernie would have won in 2016.

Perhaps the real damage was done with how Democrats handled 2016 and their response to his 2020 lead (and I don't know if he would have won in 2020 due to noticable shifts in demographics between those two elections).

But the Liz Chenney Republican is not a real chunk of the American voting public. Yet it had an outsized impact on how Kamala marketed herself.
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I’ve voted for Bernie every time he’s appeared on a ballot. I don’t think he wins this election. I don’t think there is a candidate that would have.
 
So barring he doesn't get sentenced to prison in a couple weeks (lol), he'll fill his cabinet with sycophants like rfk and musk. I'm hedging that he dies or gets the boot in some way before his term is up and we end up with Vance president. Whether he, without a franction of Trump's charisma, can pull anything out of that who knows, but it will be a mess.

Are we not even gonna get the house?
 
ayayrawn said:
So barring he doesn't get sentenced to prison in a couple weeks (lol), he'll fill his cabinet with sycophants like rfk and musk. I'm hedging that he dies or gets the boot in some way before his term is up and we end up with Vance president. Whether he, without a franction of Trump's charisma, can pull anything out of that who knows, but it will be a mess.

Are we not even gonna get the house?
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If we don't get the House, we are absolutely fucked.
 
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