Political Discussion

RenegadeMonster said:
Ah, yes, that makes sense.

Yeah, everything I heard last night was Harris was under performing Biden by 5 or more points in lots of urban centers. So this makes sense.

And yeah, a 2020 Biden run may still have beat Trump.

The part I was questioning was Trump getting fewer votes than in 2020 when all the numbers were saying he was over performing in rural counties. Gaining a lot of new voters win Gen Z males and hispanics.
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He performed better percentage of voter wise. A lot less people, like close to 20 million less voted.

I would bet a lot of that is due to four years ago, no one was doing anything because of lockdown.
 
Hemotep said:
Being right about American politics and this election is deeply dissatisfying this morning. Confronting the evidence of where we are as a society is a depressing task. People don't want to accept outcomes that are too painful to process. But here we are now. The fascists have won. Things will be bad. There's no sugar coating what comes next. Those of you who live in Blue states may be lucky enough for now to avoid the worst of it. But for the rest of us, I woke this morning to a very specific kind of fear. This life we've known is over. The world is changing and I don't think we get a redo in four years. This is it. The world we knew is gone and what replaces it is ugly and dangerous. Watching people stop resisting and going along with this new reality to protect themselves is going to be the hardest thing to witness. Don't sell out the vulnerable to save your ass. Protect people till the end.
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I knew you were not an “I Told You So” type but I did want to say that you were completely right on pretty much the entire election.

Trump winning not only sucks for everyone right now but MAGA has completely destroyed the Obama coalition and has set back any sort of meaningful resistance. Many, myself included looked at Trump’s 2016 election as an outlier and wrongly assumed that my fellow Americans, when shown the type of person he was, would do the only rational thing a good person could by stomping out that flame. This election has completely altered my world view. This time there won’t be protests or people assuming there are things they can do to influence meaningful change. We are selfish greedy species. I feel for everyone not living in a blue state but even that will only protect some so much. The safety net is going to disappear.

The future is bleak and I am tired. There will be no resistance.

You were right.
 
Nee Lewman said:
God dammit. It is right to blame voters. Sure a less than ideal candidate didn’t help. Sure the media didn’t help. But a LOT of Americans just actively voted against their own best interests … that’s on them.
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Then it's the candidate's and party's responsibility to explain that to them clearly. If you continue to blame voters, like in 2016, you are literally never going to win again, and don't deserve to.
 
Nee Lewman said:
God dammit. It is right to blame voters. Sure a less than ideal candidate didn’t help. Sure the media didn’t help. But a LOT of Americans just actively voted against their own best interests … that’s on them.
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I see people who lives in trailers all the time in Tennessee with Trump flags. Sure a reality star businessman from Queens born with a silver spoon in his mouth surely knows what it is like to struggle. I also think that there are huge amounts of Americans who are obsessed with the idea of celebrities and the idea that he isn't a politician. I can't tell you how many times I hear people's frustration with politicians who stay in office their entire lives.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
My fear is what they plan to do. Elon has said the middle class will feel pain as they rebuild America.

What are they going to due that fucks us over. What is going to hurt me and what do I need to start preparing for.

And if it's saving up a rainy day fund, that's not even feasible for me. I'm just getting by with how high rent has gotten.
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There are tax incentives going to the poorest workers and tax breaks to the richest Americans. The middle class is going to have to pay for the expensive shit like mass deportations and a fucking wall. And they are going to gut all programs that cost money.
 
45% of people said they are not better off today than they were 4 years ago.

This is the largest percentage of people saying this in last 5 election cycles. And that says a lot, because you had the Great Recession and the Pandemic in 2 of those election cycles. And yet, more people said they are not better off now than they were 4 years ago in any of those elections.

What exactly does this have to say? The economy for sure is better than it was 4 years ago. Is this all just perception, or are people tying in other issues which are not directly related to the economy, such as the cost of buying a house?
 
RenegadeMonster said:
What do you all thing about this.

Is the United States moving further right as a whole, or is the left just disinvested?
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If you thought the left was disinvested before you will be amazed at how little they give a fuck now. I gave people the benefit of the doubt the first time. Now I see I am the weird one. I need to circle the wagons I can’t worry about protecting others outside my family, friends, or community. I have to circle the wagons because that is the type of country I live in.

There won’t be protest in the street every time Trump does anything. He is our tyrant king.

I had never considered owning a firearm before but when you can’t rely on any governmental protection or police accountability moving forward what other options do we have?
 
RenegadeMonster said:
My fear is what they plan to do. Elon has said the middle class will feel pain as they rebuild America.

What are they going to due that fucks us over. What is going to hurt me and what do I need to start preparing for.

And if it's saving up a rainy day fund, that's not even feasible for me. I'm just getting by with how high rent has gotten.
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I hope every single Trump supporter feels every ounce of pain and hurt Trump and his goons are promising. If I’m going down I want them going down with me. When my older Trump supporting family member’s social security disappears they will not hear an ounce of sympathy from me. They made this bed and they better fucking lie in
 
Twentytwo said:
While I’m not leaving the Democratic Party I do think this is totally on Biden and the Democratic Party for totally ignoring Biden’s cognitive decline. Should have never run for reelection and should have had actual primaries. Democratic Party has a history of fucking everything up, they could lose a contest with themselves.
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I haven’t lost faith in the Democratic Party so much as I have lost faith in America and by and large humanity. We can all see what type of person Trump is and a good chunk of voters support that type of leader. Fuck the excuses, 2016 was not a fluke 2020 was. I see what most voters are looking for in a leader there is no one on the Left cruel or greedy enough to give these people what they want.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
or are people tying in other issues which are not directly related to the economy, such as the cost of buying a house?
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Unfortunately I see it as a much darker answer. "Illegals" "gays" "pedos" "litter boxes in schools" "sex changes at school w/o parental consent" "euthanizing your pets"
I put quotes because I hear first hand that these are the things that bother my coworkers the most. They all have boats, four wheelers, hunting cabins or other properties, etc, etc, and yet "this country sucks now."
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
Then it's the candidate's and party's responsibility to explain that to them clearly. If you continue to blame voters, like in 2016, you are literally never going to win again, and don't deserve to.
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I said this a while back, I don’t think it’s about explaining at this point. I think it’s about understanding. She did explain to a certain extent. She had actual policies but everyone said she didn’t. A lot of Americans just accepted all the lies and went with it.

RenegadeMonster said:
45% of people said they are not better off today than they were 4 years ago.

This is the largest percentage of people saying this in last 5 election cycles. And that says a lot, because you had the Great Recession and the Pandemic in 2 of those election cycles. And yet, more people said they are not better off now than they were 4 years ago in any of those elections.

What exactly does this have to say? The economy for sure is better than it was 4 years ago. Is this all just perception, or are people tying in other issues which are not directly related to the economy, such as the cost of buying a house?
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Incel politics writ large. White fragility that bled over to black men and Latinos. “Where’s mine?” run amuck. I blame this all on Al Gore and his fucking internet (the last point is a joke).

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I need time to process. I have some personal business to attend to.

Honestly, one thing to think about… There was a lot of distortion this cycle, period. A lot of the worst things Trump said were taken out of context, I don’t believe that the context always made it better but it’s still true that our view of him may be just as distorted as their view is of us. The senate and the house going his way too is also troubling but there are still checks and balances and just maybe they’ll hold. I’m skeptical but I need some glimmer of hope.
 
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