Political Discussion

Honestly, I think people don't really look past what is happening right now in this very moment for them personally. Right now is bad for a lot of people. Politics from here on out is a lot of back and forth. It's a basketball game. Trump, then Biden, now Trump again. I don't think there's any real answer other than people wanted change. If things get worse we can hope a better candidate is put forth and people vote for them more than whoever runs next.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I knew you were not an “I Told You So” type but I did want to say that you were completely right on pretty much the entire election.

Trump winning not only sucks for everyone right now but MAGA has completely destroyed the Obama coalition and has set back any sort of meaningful resistance. Many, myself included looked at Trump’s 2016 election as an outlier and wrongly assumed that my fellow Americans, when shown the type of person he was, would do the only rational thing a good person could by stomping out that flame. This election has completely altered my world view. This time there won’t be protests or people assuming there are things they can do to influence meaningful change. We are selfish greedy species. I feel for everyone not living in a blue state but even that will only protect some so much. The safety net is going to disappear.

The future is bleak and I am tired. There will be no resistance.

You were right.
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Spending all day everyday researching this stuff for the last couple decades has aged me a lot. There's no joy to be found in it. I used to feel better when I helped students to better understand this all. But that joy has left with the new generation who I am struggling to reach and show the importance of defending democracy and people.

The future is bleak, but there will always be room to resist. Now more than ever we need people to do the hard work. Voting is easy. Resistance is hard. No politician in this broken political system will save us. We must save ourselves.

Even in little ways.

I think I'm going to severely curb my record buying now. If I have any disposable money, it should go to go toward protecting trans kids and helping women get abortions and needed medical care. It should go to helping migrants who need refuge.

If we need a new underground railroad, then that's what we'll do. Build networks with other good people. Despair today and grieve. Tomorrow organize and take action. We have one life and I'll be damned if I don't do everything in my power to make the world better for the people who come after me. I might not be able to have the life I wanted anymore, but I'm not going to waste the time I do have here without a fight for what is right and good. I hope you all will do the same.
 
wokeupnew said:
Honestly, I think people don't really look past what is happening right now in this very moment for them personally. Right now is bad for a lot of people. Politics from here on out is a lot of back and forth. It's a basketball game. Trump, then Biden, now Trump again. I don't think there's any real answer other than people wanted change. If things get worse we can hope a better candidate is put forth and people vote for them more than whoever runs next.
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I guess The Left can starts filling their back benches with cruel authoritarians. We gotta give the people what they crave.
 
If there is any solace in anything most states where they had to right abortion on the ballot passed the measure. It even passed in Florida but needed a 60% threshold. Not much, but it is something, our state legislature would never allow us to vote on something like that.
 
Twentytwo said:
If there is any solace in anything most states where they had to right abortion on the ballot passed the measure. It even passed in Florida but needed a 60% threshold. Not much, but it is something, our state legislature would never allow us to vote on something like that.
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I do wonder, if there is a red state legislature in any of the red states that will ignore the will of the people where the right to abortion passed. Just like that one state ignored the will of the people for expanded medicaid stating that the people don't have the power to fun it. And ignored the states will and doing their job of funding it.
 
Yeah I think unplugging from politics is what I'm also going to do. As we had breakfast this morning, we talked about the results with our two daughters. I 100% fear for their future as women in the state of Texas. We've told them we would rather they move out of state when they're ready to start a family, if that's what the wish to do. I also fear the shittiness of boys and young men was rewarded with this election. The dude bros getting their info from Joe Rogan and Elon. It's why I'm not doing Twitter going forward. It's just not healthy. I did the same with Facebook after Covid. I said to my kids that these results suck but we need to try and focus on what we can do locally. There's a local place that has a long car line every first Saturday of the month where they give out free food. That's something we can help with. The city's homeless population is ever increasing as more and more are pushed to the margins by high housing costs. That's something we can help with. There's not much we can do nationally now. We're just going to try to help locally.
 
Hemotep said:
Spending all day everyday researching this stuff for the last couple decades has aged me a lot. There's no joy to be found in it. I used to feel better when I helped students to better understand this all. But that joy has left with the new generation who I am struggling to reach and show the importance of defending democracy and people.

The future is bleak, but there will always be room to resist. Now more than ever we need people to do the hard work. Voting is easy. Resistance is hard. No politician in this broken political system will save us. We must save ourselves.

Even in little ways.

I think I'm going to severely curb my record buying now. If I have any disposable money, it should go to go toward protecting trans kids and helping women get abortions and needed medical care. It should go to helping migrants who need refuge.

If we need a new underground railroad, then that's what we'll do. Build networks with other good people. Despair today and grieve. Tomorrow organize and take action. We have one life and I'll be damned if I don't do everything in my power to make the world better for the people who come after me. I might not be able to have the life I wanted anymore, but I'm not going to waste the time I do have here without a fight for what is right and good. I hope you all will do the same.
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Thank you for this. I agree with all of this. Things are different now. Pretending things will get better next time doofus and dingus run for an election is a fools errand.

I am just mourning the end of western democracy. Most of human existence has lived under the yoke of oppression. I have been blessed, as a straight white man growing up in middle class America. I had been hopeful that the “American Dream” could be extended to everyone within the country. I feel bad that we failed everyone so badly but I am going to have to accept that though this may be a new reality for me it’s hardly a new reality for humanity.
 
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And for what it's worth, @TenderLovingKiller®, I don't think resistance will defeat this either. There is no resistance in place at the needed scale. The Dems in their infinite hubris have fucked us all again. They'd rather Trump than the people have the power. But, one of my favorite theorists, Theodore W. Adorno, said that while there may be no path to changing the world and making it better under the current set of conditions, we've seen the world change before when we overthrew the divine right of kings and tried democracy as a species. Before then it seemed impossible to change. And at the moment, it is. But we don't know when the conditions might be right for change, so if we don't remind people to resist and remind them that resistance is possible, when the right moment comes along they might not take it because they never even consider it a possibility.

So he said that he wrote "messages in bottles" for future generations who might read them one day and realize that the time was finally right. We might not live to see the improvements, but we owe it to those like us who will be born one day. They need to know that we were here and we fought against this all.
 
Hemotep said:
And for what it's worth, @TenderLovingKiller®, I don't think resistance will defeat this either. There is no resistance in place at the needed scale. The Dems in their infinite hubris have fucked us all again. They'd rather Trump than the people have the power. But, one of my favorite theorists, Theodore W. Adorno, said that while there may be no path to changing the world and making it better under the current set of conditions, we've seen the world change before when we overthrew the divine right of kings and tried democracy as a species. Before then it seemed impossible to change. And at the moment, it is. But we don't know when the conditions might be right for change, so if we don't remind people to resist and remind them that resistance is possible, when the right moment comes along they might not take it because they never even consider it a possibility.

So he said that he wrote "messages in bottles" for future generations who might read them one day and realize that the time was finally right. We might not live to see the improvements, but we owe it to those like us who will be born one day. They need to know that we were here and we fought against this all.
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It also makes me wonder if the conditions will ever be right. In the day an age we live in, wouldn't the government and military have almost an infinite advantage to squash any attempt to overthrow the government should they decide to combat the resistance.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
I heard the same vibes on NBC.

Dems are pretty overall this and want to move on. They are looking to the future. So 2028 now. Not how they can resist.
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2028 -

1. The dem candidate will be male. Two female candidates have lost to a piece of white trash. Not taking that chance again.

2. Vance, as the repub candidate, will moderate his views but still will be in tough against Josh Shapiro or Gavin Newsom.

3. Nancy Pelosi is done. Pushing Joe out really worked out well.

4. By 2028, Ukraine will have been handed to Putin. Consumer prices will jump hugely due to tarriffs. Nato will be alone to counter the Russian advance, without America. Nato won't want America, with a President who is an asset of the opponent. Fortunately there is a Labour government in the UK and an unelectable UK Conservative leader. In all but name, the UK is back in the E.U. and on the plan. China will invade Taiwan without U.S. opposition. Israel will annex the West Bank completely, complete the destruction of Gaza, and complete it's campaign to be a pariah of the world.

5. Nato and the world don't want or need the U.S. - they can't share intelligence with America now, there is a President who will share it with Putin. With the WWII Israel taboo now ended, Germany will be a very dominant power. Remember the last time the German military was unleashed outside Germany? Yeah, they lost. But they can cause some serious damage.

6. If Pritzker, Newsom, Whitmer approached the Canadian population and offered a joint venture, the Canadian population would agree and a new country that includes California, Illinois, Michigan, Vermont, Washington, NY etc. would be a motherfucker. Sure, the capital would be in the former U.S. and that would be fine. More viable that one might think.

Bear in mind, that due to decades of inaction and Republican climate denialism, parts of the United States are becoming uninhabitable much more quickly that anyone had forecasted. At the same time, Canada's climate is relatively stable and it's a balmy 21c here today. Migration to Canada will only increase as more and more people escape the devestation of climate triggered events and wide swathes of northern Canada become mofre temperate.

The U.S. needs a third party.
 
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RenegadeMonster said:
It also makes me wonder if the conditions will ever be right. In the day an age we live in, wouldn't the government and military have almost an infinite advantage to squash any attempt to overthrow the government should they decide to combat the resistance.
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The point is that it always feels like an impossibility until it isn’t. You keep striving so when the moment comes future generations will be able to recognize the moment and seize it.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
It also makes me wonder if the conditions will ever be right. In the day an age we live in, wouldn't the government and military have almost an infinite advantage to squash any attempt to overthrow the government should they decide to combat the resistance.
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Yes. Add AI into the mix and it's over. But... Economic or environmental collapse can cause chaos in these institutions. The United States as an empire can still collapse and probably will if Musk's economic plans are forced through. No traditional form of revolution is possible in America. But resistance and sabotage from within can have a big impact.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Germany will be a very dominant power. Remember the last time the German military was unleashed outside Germany? Yeah, they lost. But they can cause
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I don't think this an accurate description. Germany is struggling economically right now because it's Export based economic Model does not work as well anymore in a World where China and the US are fending of imports.. and german Military is not in a state to be of any greater influence in the world
 
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I spent election night with friends talking and listening to music; I think we were trying to distract ourselves but a few of us would come back from the bathroom or kitchen with our faces showing increasing pallor.

I had a lot of trouble sleeping last night; I think I've stayed informed over the election cycle but tried to keep my head down for my sanity and now I'm realizing one of the big things I was voting for was to never think about Donald Trump again. Right now he's ruling my thoughts. 2016-2020 was a dark time for me personally, and here in Portland there was a lot of tension.

I thought I was open to both outcomes, but I think I was in denial, or at least felt this couldn't happen, in the sense that it'll be disastrous for us. I have no illusions about it being bad in the first place, but it's going to get so much worse here.
 
Jan said:
I don't think this an accurate description. Germany is struggling economically right now because it's Export based economic Model does not work as well anymore in a World where China and the US are fending of imports.. and german Military is not in a state to be of any greater influence in the world
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Yeah I think France is probably the strongest military power in the EU in terms of equipment and trained standing army. The UK was in wider europe but their funding cuts whilst still attempting to spread themselves wide has severely weakened them to the point that I would not be so sure anymore.
 
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