hatfieldpdx
Well-Known Member
In case it helps someone else, a serving of wisdom from Terry Tempest Williams...
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
Think it is “prefer”.
hatfieldpdx
Well-Known Member
and from Barbara Kingsolver...
imtheocean
Well-Known Member
Just want to say that this really resonated with me, and helps. Thanks @Hemotep
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
The idea that if only they had done it “this different way” is not the reality of the situation. I really hope you give the video @Sonicpharmacist posted earlier a look. I feel like it expresses the frustration that many of us are feeling today and blaming Harris campaign just sounds like noise at this point.
Hemotep
Well-Known Member
I think it's hard for reasonable, rational thinkers, to recognize how irrational a massive segment of the population is. Just as there were a lot of people who weren't voting "for" Harris, but instead "against" Trump, there were a ton of people who wouldn't vote for Harris and the Democrat policies. Complaints that they were holding her to a different standard than Don, completely misses the point. She represents more of the same and we know this same and it sucks. People wanted to hear how her policies would be different. Trump's policies are beside the point. He represents chaos, which is going to be different no matter what. They think, it's might be bad for some people, yes, BUT what if it might be good for me?
This Family Guy clip is a good example of many American voters.
This Family Guy clip is a good example of many American voters.
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
The hardest part of this whole thing was talking to my daughters this morning. They are 25 and 20, currently live/go to school in Florida and my youngest is part of the LBBTQ community. Hearing the sadness, disappointment and fear in their voices made it very hard to respond in a positive, "it's ok", dad manner.
They're going to be down there for another year and a half and they'll be moving back north, I honestly can't wait for that to happen and struggle with what the future holds for not only them, but all 3 of my children as well as the youth of this country.
We live in a democracy, we're no better if we complain about it. We can all be disappointed, but we can't give up hope, I can't, and won't. Americans have spoken and made a choice, they got what they wanted, let's see what happens while we continue to fight for a better country, one day at a time.
While the people put him in office, the Dems are mostly to blame, starting with Biden running in 2020 instead of stepping aside for a "new alternative". Harris was straddled with whatever baggage you want to use from her boss, people, at least no where enough people, were able to separate the two. She absorbed his unpopularity, right or wrong.
For me it's time to disconnect, I spent this morning clearing all political stuff off my feeds, I'm done. As @TenderLovingKiller® mentioned, I'm all about my "circle" now, me, my family and friends and the handful allowed to exist in that circle. I know there are still some guardrails, we'll see how they do.
Its a tough day, we all process this stuff differently, but don't let it drag you too far into cynicism rabbit hole.
They're going to be down there for another year and a half and they'll be moving back north, I honestly can't wait for that to happen and struggle with what the future holds for not only them, but all 3 of my children as well as the youth of this country.
We live in a democracy, we're no better if we complain about it. We can all be disappointed, but we can't give up hope, I can't, and won't. Americans have spoken and made a choice, they got what they wanted, let's see what happens while we continue to fight for a better country, one day at a time.
While the people put him in office, the Dems are mostly to blame, starting with Biden running in 2020 instead of stepping aside for a "new alternative". Harris was straddled with whatever baggage you want to use from her boss, people, at least no where enough people, were able to separate the two. She absorbed his unpopularity, right or wrong.
For me it's time to disconnect, I spent this morning clearing all political stuff off my feeds, I'm done. As @TenderLovingKiller® mentioned, I'm all about my "circle" now, me, my family and friends and the handful allowed to exist in that circle. I know there are still some guardrails, we'll see how they do.
Its a tough day, we all process this stuff differently, but don't let it drag you too far into cynicism rabbit hole.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
I already watched it and disagree with many of the things it posits.
Hemotep's posts today nail my feelings with the one directly underneath yours absolutely nailing it. I'll leave it to him to lead the pushback. I've already articulated how I feel.
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TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
The maddening part is at a certain point you throw your hands up and say the only way we will learn that the stove is hot is by letting the voters touch the preverbal stove. The problem is the average voter never learns the lesson so they just end up keep touching the stove until they slowly burning to death.
threesunrises
Well-Known Member
vance may be even worse. He's owned by thiel.
threesunrises
Well-Known Member
I do blame my neighbors because I know how they voted.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I think we are interpreting @Hemotep post from earlier very differently if you think he is gonna “lead the pushback”.
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
100%, this is mainly why I'm disconnecting. Because "this" isn't going to be fixed in 2028, 2032, or 2036, this "thing" that's engulfed us is going to take decades to change. I'm not expecting anything in my lifetime, it's on my kids and there kids to clean up this mess and all I can say to them is, I'm sorry.
mdmost
Well-Known Member
This was kinda my point to our kids this morning. We can only affect people in our community. We can help those around us and try to make things better. Nationally, the ship might've sailed for a while. My goal is get my kids in an altruistic mindset where they aren't just doom scrolling or performatively doing things online. Get out there and let's help people who need it. My oldest volunteered at a cat rescue over the summer. That's something that our community needs and you may connect people with a kitten or adult cat that can help them be happier. It's how we got our youngest her kitten and we all love having that kitten around and watching her grow. We just have to find the little joys in life and find ways to bring moments of joy to others. That's how I'm going to try to fight my cynicism.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
"Complaints that they were holding her to a different standard than Don, completely misses the point. She represents more of the same and we know this same and it sucks. People wanted to hear how her policies would be different. Trump's policies are beside the point. He represents chaos, which is going to be different no matter what. They think, it's might be bad for some people, yes, BUT what if it might be good for me?"
Today's conversations very much echo the arguments over whether Obama's race or his policies were what led to Trump that took place a couple of months ago. To quote him again:
"If the racism was the bigger issue then Obama wouldn't have won twice, or been likely to win again if he could have run a third time. This is exactly what people claimed when he ran the first time and said he could never win in America. Yes, there are a ton of racists and they aren't dying off like many love to claim. But it's not the major driver of the economy or politics, but they are of it. The order these things happens in is important and can be traced genealogically to the American colonies when race was first being used as a wedge to destroy solidarity between poor white people and poor black people by plantation owners.
And economic anxiety is not what I'm taking about here. It isn't about what the middle class thinks their economic situation is. It's about the consequences of what happened to the class as a class. What was destroyed more than anything else by these policies was not people's pay (although that was too) it was the entire system of public goods and benefits that the class enjoyed. The education system, health care, the environment, food systems, and the list goes on. Neoliberalism shattered the progressive tax system. People who grew up in the 60s and 70s were convinced that racism was dying off because life was getting better for most people despite how painfully slow it was. But once you create a system that really blows up the difference between the haves and the have nots, by destroying the public goods they could all enjoy no matter their pay, you need to find ways to fragment the have nots so that they don't take over and make the haves pay. Racism has been the main tool they've used to do that for centuries in America. It was still in the national conscious even if it was kind of repressed for a brief period, but yes, it is a symptom. No one is inherently or naturally racist, but they do give in to prejudice and discrimination very easily when their life starts to suck.
This is like saying Hitler rose to power because of antisemitism. But no one says that now because it would ignore everything we know that happened to Germany in the aftermath of WWI as punishment by the allies. Hitler used antisemitic sentiments to exploit the despair of the Germans, and they were all too willing to make antisemitism a core belief to get theirs. Then WWII ends and they were willing to reeducate themselves and confront the antisemitism by fixing the economic conditions that gave birth to it and demanding reeducation. Soon after the war many Jews repatriated to West Germany and were welcomed back, even by those who were pro-Nazi when Hitler was in power. Antisemitism didn't go away entirely because some were real believers, but a lot of them were just like Americans: shitty people who overlook horrible things happening to others so long as it isn't them."
Democrats let a senile man run unopposed in last year's primary, lied to the public about his health and then propped up a candidate that insisted the economy was in a great place while doubling down on more of the same and angling for neo-cons as the coalition build. Any chance of beating Trump required acknowledging the how and why of the things that aren't working and offering fixes.
We can all think that blaming immigrants is scape goating and that tariffs will make things work. But they are "solutions". And the last thing Trump is doing is pretending things are okay.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
It’s also the case that a large proportion of society and particularly society in forgotten post industrial areas has been forgotten and left behind. Nobody gives a shit about them and they know. Lies and chaos that at least addresses them sure as hell sounds better to them than the broken status quo. There’s almost a nihilistic well fuck it even if it’s shit things can’t get any worse than they already are. It’s the force that’s been behind so many of the retrograde and rightward steps across the western world and as someone who originally comes from a post industrial town that was almost deliberately turned into a shithole by government policy I understand it, even if I don’t agree with it.
The dems and labour and all the traditional social democratic parties need to remember their roots and find a genuine way of formulating policy to make these people’s lives better, or at the very least vastly improve how them message to them. That isn’t by condescending them.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
This is what the article about Hunter S Thompson that I posted earlier talks about. Part of Trump's appeal is that he might make like as difficult for people in urban areas as it has become for those living in rural towns.
Twentytwo
Pre-order Goodness
The sad part is at least in America that shit isn't likely to get any better no matter who is in charge. We have the best government money can buy, Our politicians and judges are owned by corporate America and think tanks. Unless they take the money out of politics and institute term limits which isn't going to happen it is likely to keep getting worse and worse.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
Well yes I think the only way to fix politics in general, but particularly in America, is to nationalise political parties.