Political Discussion

Sonicpharmacist said:
I fail to see how women possibly losing autonomy on their reproductive rights and gun violence can be brushed aside as issues of “some” importance.
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It's a privilege to be able to think they are just of "some" importance.

Just like gay rights.

And having privilege is not an insult at all. Recognize when you have privilege and that others don't have the same privilege. And then do the work to make sure your privilege is not infringing on others rights.

Not aimed at @Sonicpharmacist . It is for @everyone, myself included.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
I fail to see how women possibly losing autonomy on their reproductive rights and gun violence can be brushed aside as issues of “some” importance.
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It's a matter of relativity. If we're all dead due to apocalyptic climate events then did it matter? If we are all broke and dying because healthcare is fucked, does it matter? If we're too stupid to make arguments in favor of your all important issues because we didn't fix the education system, did it matter? I'm not syaing they aren't important and shouldn't be brought up. I'm saying they are poor metric for choosing a direction for our national reform if much larger issues are going to be ignored in favor of them.
 
That immigration was a major issue in the last election is perfectly indicative. If we destroy the most important basics then we won't need to worry about immigration.
 
debianlinux said:
It's a matter of relativity. If we're all dead due to apocalyptic climate events then did it matter? If we are all broke and dying because healthcare is fucked, does it matter? If we're too stupid to make arguments in favor of your all important issues because we didn't fix the education system, did it matter? I'm not syaing they aren't important and shouldn't be brought up. I'm saying they are poor metric for choosing a direction for our national reform if much larger issues are going to be ignored in favor of them.
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Kids are being abused, neglected, and dying now because of the two issues you think are only of *some* importance. Yes, climate change and healthcare are two HUGE issues we all should be fighting for, but so are reproductive rights, and gun violence. You don’t think they’re that important, then fine, fight for something else, but don’t minimize them.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
Kids are being abused, neglected, and dying now because of the two issues you think are only of *some* importance. Yes, climate change and healthcare are two HUGE issues we all should be fighting for, but so are reproductive rights, and gun violence. You don’t think they’re that important, then fine, fight for something else, but don’t minimize them.
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Where is s candidate that has a focus on these "HUGE" issues? There isn't one. I'm not interested in distractions from those things. It's not minimization, it's priorities. A roof leak is a very serious problem that should be immediately rectified, there's no minimizing that. Unfortunately the house is on fire. Why are we worrying about the roof leak while the house is burning down?
 
Indymisanthrope said:
The thing is that these should be the issues that are EASY to fix. The parameters are clear, the scope is easily understood, and the impact is immediate. How do you get people to focus on the bigger issues that implicate vast, complex systems over long periods of time if we can't protect them from brutality in their daily lives?
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Fair point. I can't disagree that it is impossible to focus on one thing when the other is amiss seeing as it is the underpinning of my own argument.
 
debianlinux said:
Where is s candidate that has a focus on these "HUGE" issues? There isn't one. I'm not interested in distractions from those things. It's not minimization, it's priorities. A roof leak is a very serious problem that should be immediately rectified, there's no minimizing that. Unfortunately the house is on fire. Why are we worrying about the roof leak while the house is burning down?
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My comment stands. You don’t think they’re big issues, obviously, so fight for what you think is important. But don’t fucking tell me what I (and most of America) think are important aren’t important.
 
debianlinux said:
Where is s candidate that has a focus on these "HUGE" issues? There isn't one. I'm not interested in distractions from those things. It's not minimization, it's priorities. A roof leak is a very serious problem that should be immediately rectified, there's no minimizing that. Unfortunately the house is on fire. Why are we worrying about the roof leak while the house is burning down?
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Tell the immigrant families being torn apart that immigration is only moderately important. Tell the parent of a child murdered because of guns that gun control isn’t as big of a priority as other issues. I’m not saying climate change and healthcare aren’t as important, because they are. But even if I didn’t, I would never dare to tell anyone what they think is an important issue isn’t, that my opinion matters more than theirs. Because that’s exactly what you’re doing here. Full stop.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
Tell the immigrant families being torn apart that immigration is only moderately important. Tell the parent of a child murdered because of guns that gun control isn’t as big of a priority as other issues. I’m not saying climate change and healthcare aren’t as important, because they are. But even if I didn’t, I would never dare to tell anyone what they think is an important issue isn’t, that my opinion matters more than theirs. Because that’s exactly what you’re doing here. Full stop.
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I disagree with your perception but I respect your right to hold it. No ill intent was actually meant but feel free to assume as much.
 
You seem to be saying that I think my opinions should matter to you more than your opinions do. I'm saying my opinions matter more to me than yours do to me. I really would only expect the same from you. My opinions are not meant as personal attacks regardless of you want to portray them as such.
 
Teeeee said:
It's a privilege to be able to think they are just of "some" importance.

Just like gay rights.

And having privilege is not an insult at all. Recognize when you have privilege and that others don't have the same privilege. And then do the work to make sure your privilege is not infringing on others rights.

Not aimed at @Sonicpharmacist . It is for @everyone, myself included.
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The *some* in my sentence was in no way meant to imply the fight over abortion was of minimal importance. And I think the "priviledge" comment is fair especially considering that poorer communities of color are disproportionately effected by the backwards policies of anti-abortion politicians.

My point was more that there are many, many issues facing this country and that abortion and guns get a disproportionate amount of the conversation. More importantly, the right uses abortion to create single issue voters. Meanwhile, neither side treats the gun control or immigration as complex issues that should be discussed in nuance.

The calls for centrism suddenly disappear on these issues despite, as I said before, the fact that they are issues on which the majority of Americans are deeply moderate. The right demonizes :the other" and utilizes dangerous rhetoric (while justifying borderline concentration camps) to shift blame away from the 1% for the fact that people are economically and mentally suffering. Meanwhile, the left has gone from things that make a ton of sense (giving Dreamers citizenship, making legal immigration easier, giving refugees asylum) to conversations during the debate that border on arguing for open borders.

Lastly, the concept of privilege clouds plenty of positions that suburbanites love to stake centrist positions on. This includes healthcare, for profit war, free college and the student debt crises, climate change, the rampant privatization of things like water and education, exc, exc, exc.
 
debianlinux said:
You seem to be saying that I think my opinions should matter to you more than your opinions do. I'm saying my opinions matter more to me than yours do to me. I really would only expect the same from you. My opinions are not meant as personal attacks regardless of you want to portray them as such.
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Gun violence, immigration, and women’s reproductive rights are issues everyone should care about. The fact you think they’re a distraction says all that needs to be said.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
The *some* in my sentence was in no way meant to imply the fight over abortion was of minimal importance. And I think the "priviledge" comment is fair especially considering that poorer communities of color are disproportionately effected by the backwards policies of anti-abortion politicians.

My point was more that there are many, many issues facing this country and that abortion and guns get a disproportionate amount of the conversation. More importantly, the right uses abortion to create single issue voters. Meanwhile, neither side treats the gun control or immigration as complex issues that should be discussed in nuance.

The calls for centrism suddenly disappear on these issues despite, as I said before, the fact that they are issues on which the majority of Americans are deeply moderate. The right demonizes :the other" and utilizes dangerous rhetoric (while justifying borderline concentration camps) to shift blame away from the 1% for the fact that people are economically and mentally suffering. Meanwhile, the left has gone from things that make a ton of sense (giving Dreamers citizenship, making legal immigration easier, giving refugees asylum) to conversations during the debate that border on arguing for open borders.

Lastly, the concept of privilege clouds plenty of positions that suburbanites love to stake centrist positions on. This includes healthcare, for profit war, free college and the student debt crises, climate change, the rampant privatization of things like water and education, exc, exc, exc.
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Oh, I didn't even realize that you had said some. Apologies if you thought I was coming at you. Not at all.

I think most of you know my political leanings. But I also think that no matter what party we are in, we are a very broken country. Too splintered. I can not imagine the next president, whomever it may be with whichever party they affiliate with, is going to be able to unite us. Or even a great portion of us. It's too bipartisan. I hope I am wrong, but sheesh.

So instead of looking at things through a party lens (because even my party is disappointing me), I try to look at it in relation to how I exist in this country and how I can help and change and grow while not harming others. The privilege aspect helps me with that. I'm a white, LGBTQ, middle class, educated, US citizen woman. There are definite privileges in there that I have to keep in mind while advocating for the non-privileges in there.

That's all I meant. Both sides are completely demonizing the other and no one is hearing anything that is being said.
 
Dtknuckles said:
So you won't engage in a thread because you can't emotionally handle political discussion, but you hang around to read it and make condescending comments occasionally? What was rule number one on the old forum?
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I would put this thread on block and never see it again if I could. It draws me like a moth to a flame. We always love the things that hate us don’t we? I generally don’t engage with y’all in this thread because the more I do, the more the far right makes sense in comparison. I don’t consider that a positive direction for anyone’s wellbeing.

They say you shouldn’t wrestle with a pig because it only gets you dirty and it’s fun for the pig. I believe the same goes for trying to discuss politics with the crazy. I’m not saying that in a glib or dismissive manner. I legitimately believe that a large portion of the active participants in this thread are suffering from some type of psychosis that is akin to the mass hysteria of the Salem witch trials. So why bother?

This thread is representative of the far left. There are very few centrists or moderates who have much to say here. This isn’t me trying to fling insults even though I know that’s how it will be received, I just really do think a lot of y’all have lost touch with any semblance of reality at this point. But sometime it is fun to watch the internecine bloodshed as an outsider.
 
Teeeee said:
Both sides are completely demonizing the other and no one is hearing anything that is being said
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I usually read through this thread every couple weeks but don't really post, I feel you guys all say things more eloquently than I can. But I came here to pretty much say ^this sentence^.

I work with mostly blue collar Trump supporters (a couple are very vocal) who I really think are only on 'that side' because they are racist, misogynist homophobes. These are the kind of people that say LGBT is for Liberty, Guns, Bible and Trump. And they make fun of Libtards all day. They assume I'm a liberal because I don't join in with them in these discussions. But really it's because I find it very difficult to find the right words to tell them how close minded and small I think they are. I guess they believe what they believe and they won't hear me anyway. Then I think, am I even listening to them? So admittedly I have a hard time being openly communicative with people I vehemently disagree with.
 
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