Political Discussion

dbarila said:
I mean, it sounds completely insane but at the same time actually makes some sense.
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From both directions though. As I point to with my links- these Tulsi, Russia links were initially pushed by shady firms that got caught falsifying links between Russia and the GOP in the Alabama senate race. Am I glad Doug won? Of course. But it also points to the ways in which Russia has become a tool that Dems throw at anyone they want to discredit.

And anyone who knows the Clinton's know that they are a vindictive bunch who will attempt to halt the career of any politician who crosses them (as Tulsi did in 2016 via calling out the DNC's corruption). It's precisely why I don't hold Warren's lack of Bernie endorsement against her.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Hell, you talk about right wingers who are terrified of socialists and who think free = "evil and lazy".
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I didn't say right wingers. I was not speaking specifically of right wingers--I was thinking of some particular conversations I've had with West Coast Democrats over the last couple years, in addition to the right-wing anti-socialist rhetoric we're all so familiar with.
DownIsTheNewUp said:
the idea that he is some cranky old man behind the scenes is completely detached from reality. And I say this as somebody A) who has close friends who have worked for him closely and B) somebody who has seen him go out of his way to help a local LA organization I work for simply because he heard about a battle we were waging on behalf of a bunch of vets who were being fucked over by their landlords.
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I didn't say behind the scenes. I said in the spotlight. I don't think he's a mean ol' man or anything like that. I do, unfortunately, have disability activists in my life who tried to work with his campaign in the past and had a deeply unpleasant and dismissive experience, but I also know folks who enjoyed working on his campaign. I'm glad you and your friends had positive experiences. But I'm talking about the way he comes across when he's challenged in public. I have also seen him be charming and speak powerfully, but let's not pretend he's always graceful under pressure.
 
GritNGlitter said:
I didn't say right wingers. I was not speaking specifically of right wingers--I was thinking of some particular conversations I've had with West Coast Democrats over the last couple years, in addition to the right-wing anti-socialist rhetoric we're all so familiar with.
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I just want to echo this. I'm from a liberal city. I work with people who identify as progressive liberals and socialism is something that people still don't want to say they are committed to even if they believe in the principles. Identifying as socialist is socially acceptable ;) where I'm at. My assumption is that's even more true in the suburban neighborhoods. In my conversations with older dems. they are at times fearful of social concepts particularly as they apply to the economy. The cold war remains a strong influence on their identity.

GritNGlitter said:
I didn't say behind the scenes. I said in the spotlight. I don't think he's a mean ol' man or anything like that. I do, unfortunately, have disability activists in my life who tried to work with his campaign in the past and had a deeply unpleasant and dismissive experience, but I also know folks who enjoyed working on his campaign. I'm glad you and your friends had positive experiences. But I'm talking about the way he comes across when he's challenged in public. I have also seen him be charming and speak powerfully, but let's not pretend he's always graceful under pressure.
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I always felt like Bernie plays-up the cantankerous thing at times. Like it's cute. I dunno. I don't have any close interactions with Bernie supporters or the campaign, other than receiving a few obnoxious phone calls I didn't ask for because I'm on someone's list. My impression from very far away has been there's a bit too much zealousness for my taste.

The same thing can be said for any campaign probably, but when I get that vibe I'm immediately less interested. I'm personally not interested in the education that tends to be offered by campaigners. It always feels condescending to me.

None of the candidates are left enough for me either. I think the more progressive candidates are more my cup-o-tea, but I have little faith that a Sanders or Warren presidency is going to fundamentally alter the power structure. Maybe a few people will be less desperate. I hope so, but I feel like the systemic changes I'd like to see are not going to happen in my lifetime. I'm personally more interested in people that are putting pressure on police, landlords, and legislatures at the local level. I think there's more potential positive impacts there.
 
jaycee said:
I just want to echo this. I'm from a liberal city. I work with people who identify as progressive liberals and socialism is something that people still don't want to say they are committed to even if they believe in the principles. Identifying as socialist is socially acceptable ;) where I'm at. My assumption is that's even more true in the suburban neighborhoods. In my conversations with older dems. they are at times fearful of social concepts particularly as they apply to the economy. The cold war remains a strong influence on their identity.



I always felt like Bernie plays-up the cantankerous thing at times. Like it's cute. I dunno. I don't have any close interactions with Bernie supporters or the campaign, other than receiving a few obnoxious phone calls I didn't ask for because I'm on someone's list. My impression from very far away has been there's a bit too much zealousness for my taste.

The same thing can be said for any campaign probably, but when I get that vibe I'm immediately less interested. I'm personally not interested in the education that tends to be offered by campaigners. It always feels condescending to me.

None of the candidates are left enough for me either. I think the more progressive candidates are more my cup-o-tea, but I have little faith that a Sanders or Warren presidency is going to fundamentally alter the power structure. Maybe a few people will be less desperate. I hope so, but I feel like the systemic changes I'd like to see are not going to happen in my lifetime. I'm personally more interested in people that are putting pressure on police, landlords, and legislatures at the local level. I think there's more potential positive impacts there.
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Absolutely. Housing is getting so expensive here and the Portland Police Bureau is such a disgrace, it's important to me to put support towards local government roles that can focus on and address those issues.

But I did hear that Warren has stated that she intends to put an end to the filibuster, which did pique my interest. As far as I know she's the only one to state this intention. I'm definitely most interested in a candidate willing to battle to restore balance to the branches of government. I mean, at least until borders and nation states are abolished altogether. ;)
 
GritNGlitter said:
But I'm not a member of either party, and Oregon is pretty reliably blue, so I'm currently more focused on my city politics (and calling in with support of my Senators periodically), where my opinion and money can make the strongest impact.
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I wish I could like this a million times. Many people will scrutinize the behaviors, backgrounds and voting histories of candidates for national office but don't spend a second doing the same for candidates for city/local offices or their representatives to their state legislature. The more local politically you focus, the more you impact you can have on how your actual everyday life is affected.
 
jaycee said:
I miss voting in Oregon. I miss my voting book that came in the mail. I miss the ease. That state seems to have its act together as far as voting system goes.
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Yes, auto registration and vote by mail should be adopted in every state. Our voter turnout is steadily increasing too.

In fact, by booklet and ballot are in my mail basket right now!
 
jaycee said:
I miss voting in Oregon. I miss my voting book that came in the mail. I miss the ease. That state seems to have its act together as far as voting system goes.
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I often wonder if Oregon's vote-by-mail system is the most potentially corrupt way of voting. People who have moved out of a jurisdiction can have someone forward their mail so they can keep voting on things where they no longer live. People who live in a household who either don't care about how they vote or have a domineering/controlling partner can have that person vote for them. It prevents certain people from voting strictly in private.
GritNGlitter said:
In fact, by booklet and ballot are in my mail basket right now!
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GritNGlitter said:
Housing is getting so expensive here
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With the current ballot, you'll have the option to vote against the two ballot measures that aim to impose over one billion dollars in property taxes (over 5 years, IIRC) that directly negatively impact the cost of living here.
 
High Rant District said:
I often wonder if Oregon's vote-by-mail system is the most potentially corrupt way of voting. People who have moved out of a jurisdiction can have someone forward their mail so they can keep voting on things where they no longer live. People who live in a household who either don't care about how they vote or have a domineering/controlling partner can have that person vote for them. It prevents certain people from voting strictly in private.
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I've wondered the same. Coming from the east it seemed strange just voting by mail at first. I'm sure it happens but you have to be pretty dedicated to voting for or against something/someone where you don't live instead of voting for or against something/someone where you do.

It seems pretty difficult to vote in two municipalities if you're still in state.

I'll take OR over the state I'm in now where I have to vote absentee and request a ballot every election by mail if I don't want to wait in line for hours. This state suppresses the votes of workers that can't miss work, don't have internet access, or don't know how to navigate the online request that you have to print out and mail in.
 
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Wow, no wonder this country as a jailing issue. Our Criminal Justice System locks away more people than every other developed country. Mostly for minor drug infractions where addiction treatment would be far better suited than years in jail. If violating trick-or-treating rules could have such a hefty penalty you can only imagine what other things could land you in jail for years.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I saw a friend’s dad share that pic of a Somali woman holding a rifle and claiming it was Ilhan Omar on Facebook.

I dropped a quick comment relating that the picture is over 40 years old and obviously isn’t her. I shared a link directly to the AP’s archive that describes its origins.

Now I’m embroiled in some nutball dialogue about how it can’t be over 40 years old, since she’s in it, and also the AP site is clearly propaganda for the radical Islamist forces at work in our country, and a former military intelligence officer secretly told him so, and also something about Thomas Jefferson’s copy of the Qur’an (?).

I should have known better, I know.

But this worldview is so dense and layered with years of various strands of conspiracy theory and fear-mongering and disinformation campaigns and National Treasure movies, it’s like a window into a completely different world. We just cannot even agree on whether this photograph is real, much less whether it’s 40 years old, never mind if it actually depicts Rep. Omar. The publicly verifiable AP provenance is nothing to him compared to the imagined whispers of a friend who told him something different.

It’s not often I end up engaging with a real believer like this, at least one who isn’t an anonymous name on a screen. I know this guy. He was like a second dad to me when I was young. I’m sure we both think the other has changed a lot since those days. We can’t even communicate from the same reality anymore.

I know we’ve all had this happen to us before. It’s just really disheartening when you come face to face with a reminder that we won’t unify, we won’t compromise, we won’t make progress...not when we can’t even agree on what is or is not real.
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My first question would be what would be wrong with a woman holding a rifle in a war torn country regardless of who it is or was? I mean isn't that compatible with the constitution?

I wonder how much exposure he has to people that are different from him?
 
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