Political Discussion

Let me preface this by saying, this isn't about any of the posts above. I personally think Obama "sold-out" long before he was ever elected president and was confused why anybody thought that the system was going to be fundamentally changed when he was elected. His election was significant but what he has said is just a symptom of a larger issue.

Here's a few reasons why "OK Boomer" is dumb AF... "OK millennial" is dumb AF too:

1. It's hurting the movement.
People can blame "Boomers" all they want for being ignorant, which is often-times very real, but blaming people of a certain generation (and in some cases anyone who simply has a differing take) for the reality that is present-day America is incredibly short-sighted and playing right into the hands of the people that actually are at fault for everyone's financial and emotional desperation.

Any movement that is or at least wants to think of itself as revolutionary that isn't inclusive and takes a separatist approach is doomed to fail if dependent on votes and doomed to authoritarianism if dependent on weapons.

There are real reasons that people have fears about the installation of centrist-European ideas in America. The fears might be viewed as unfounded by those slinging dumb-labels about, but the fear is no less real, a name-calling is usually not a sound method for building the support necessary for the movement to be successful. Every youthful person thinks they are smarter than the people that came before them, and they thankfully are!, but to simply discredit the experience of the people that came before is irresponsible particularly when those folks make-up a significant portion of the population and are living longer and longer.

The people that are literally banking on the backs of the regular working people of America support the status-quo and the status-quo remains because we get caught-up bickering and blaming each other instead of setting our sights on the individuals and institutions that profit off of us. If the best argument we can make is "it's your fault my life sucks" to our fellow peons those who are blinded by what their text-books, media outlets, police leadership, and religion conditions them to believe will continue to be manipulated and we will all continue to lose.

We are getting caught-up in narratives about being "left" enough instead of focusing on the moves people are making while we're bickering.

As usual, I don't disagree with much of anything you say. But I think it's important to point out that A) the media has been slinging mud at my generation for a full decade now while doing their best to deflect away from the economic realities that we face B) this whole thing was triggered by a babbling Boomer's rant on how dumb younger generations are and C) there is very legitimate anger from people under 40 or so (38 is the cutoff for millenials) over a plethora of issues (Biden leading in the polls, climate change, Trump, economic inequality) and this is our way of venting.

I do agree, however, that coalition building is vital to change and that this is not productive to that. Same time, Boomers seem intent on repeating the mistakes of the past while talking down to everyone else. So frankly, we have been at a point of generational warfare for awhile now. Sanders/Warren vs. Biden/Pete (neither of whom poll above 10% with people under 38) is living, breathing proof of that.

It's also worth noting that it is generation Z and not millennials who are responsible for OK Boomer. And considering they are the same generation that has finally figured out how to mobilize over climate change, I'm not gonna hold it against them.

Where is 2??

I'm just waiting for an OK Boomer to be lobbed at me. So I can respond that I'm a Gen Xer and you can thank my generation for grunge!!!! ;)

Ok, Karen ;)
 
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As usual, I don't disagree with much of anything you say. But I think it's important to point out that A) the media has been slinging mud at my generation for a full decade now while doing their best to deflect away from the economic realities that we face B) this whole thing was triggered by a babbling Boomer's rant on how dumb younger generations are and C) there is very legitimate anger from people under 40 or so (38 is the cutoff for millenials) over a plethora of issues (Biden leading in the polls, climate change, Trump, economic inequality) and this is our way of venting.

I do agree, however, that coalition building is vital to change and that this is not productive to that. Same time, Boomers seem intent on repeating the mistakes of the past while talking down to everyone else. So frankly, we have been at a point of generational warfare for awhile now. Sanders/Warren vs. Biden/Pete (neither of whom poll above 10% with people under 38) is living, breathing proof of that.

It's also worth noting that it is generation Z and not millennials who are responsible for OK Boomer. And considering they are the same generation that has finally figured out how to mobilize over climate change, I'm not gonna hold it against them.



Ok, Karen ;)
OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!!! Lol.

 
Worth watching:

For those who don't know- Tabbai is a longtime writer for Rolling Stone with a brazen writing style and progressive ideology. They talk Epstein and the death of journalism among other things:

 
As usual, I don't disagree with much of anything you say. But I think it's important to point out that A) the media has been slinging mud at my generation for a full decade now while doing their best to deflect away from the economic realities that we face B) this whole thing was triggered by a babbling Boomer's rant on how dumb younger generations are and C) there is very legitimate anger from people under 40 or so (38 is the cutoff for millenials) over a plethora of issues (Biden leading in the polls, climate change, Trump, economic inequality) and this is our way of venting.

I do agree, however, that coalition building is vital to change and that this is not productive to that. Same time, Boomers seem intent on repeating the mistakes of the past while talking down to everyone else. So frankly, we have been at a point of generational warfare for awhile now. Sanders/Warren vs. Biden/Pete (neither of whom poll above 10% with people under 38) is living, breathing proof of that.

It's also worth noting that it is generation Z and not millennials who are responsible for OK Boomer. And considering they are the same generation that has finally figured out how to mobilize over climate change, I'm not gonna hold it against them.



Ok, Karen ;)

I mean yes, but isn't this just history repeating itself. I'm somewhere on that gen-x gen-y cusp and the economic reality for me, coming from modest means, with some racially-based privilege, seemed just as dire when Gen-Zers were just being born. I'm sure it's worse in some ways today, student debt for instance was bad for me but my interest rates were not as bad as those that started after me, but the "good jobs" have been next to non-existent for decades and the impacts of climate change (while becoming more obvious) were well underway by the late 90's.

Again Yes - there's some shit to be angry about specific to today, but these problems are not new and many of us have been promoting the ideas that Gen-Z or whomever have co-opted for longer than I've been alive. Old people always think young people are stupid and vice versa. It's part of baseline human idiocy, but the idea that Boomers are worse than the people before them and whatever aged younger people are somehow smarter about this shit than the people that came before them is absolute folly - and everyone is doing themselves and "the movement" a dis-service by thinking they've figured something out that no-one has before. Know thy history blah blah blah.

The whole thing may have been triggered by an idiot "boomer" but there are plenty of idiot z's, y's or whatever now using it in a way that's about that separatism / I'm smarter than you thing.

and the media thing is exactly what I'm talking about... allowing these narratives to be set by the people that seek to divide to keep us weak . Who gives af who said what? or if young people are perceiving bullying or some shit by older people or the media. It isn't an excuse to lose sight of the goal if there is one.

I've seen this over and over again. Young people are pissed, old people are trying to protect themselves, and everybody loses. It sucks and it's why (in part) nothing ever changes. Generational warfare is a long-standing tradition in this country. Sometimes I wonder what the ex-hippy yuppies of the future will look like. Will they wear turtle-necks and drive electric SUVs and listen to indie-rock?

If you make it to middle-age and then old-age in this life you spend decades hearing and seeing the same shit. People being taken advantage of, the desperate becoming more desperate, the boom and bust of global capitalism - all of the harm. You see old people get blamed, poor people get blamed, young people get blamed, Republicans, Democrats, heathens, labels, stereotypes, more blah.... what you don't see is those people actually identifying their shared interest, which is to not get fucked over all of the time, and to have what you're promised by the country, an equal opportunity to succeed.

I just don't know why we waste our time on it.
 
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lol - i meant to remove the 1. I numbered the paragraphs at first but then realized I was just saying the same thing over and over again.
Y - someone lobbed it at me yesterday, which is pretty funny because I'm almost certainly more politically, socially, and economically leftist than 90% of people.

An empty vessel makes the loudest sound. That’s not a member whose opinion I’d be overly concerned with on anything really.
 
What if you're an "old millennial" but actually find the very concept of "generations" rather arbitrarily defined and not terribly useful, especially in light of the fact that intra-generational diversity is far greater than inter-generational diversity, and the sheer number of both wonderful and horrible people in every "generation?"
 
I drive past this White Castle every day. Very believable story. Very legal, very cool.

Taibbi was so good ca. 2008 when he was writing about the crimes of the big banks during the financial crisis. In recent years, he has totally lost his goddamn mind.

How so? As a longtime reader of his, I see absolutely no evidence of this within this interview. Nor in his work for RS.
 
"Lost his mind" might not be the right term. More like "I don't understand the position he has staked out as a journalist." I'm not a Rogan listener, so to be fair, most of my recent engagement with Taibbi's thinking has been through the occasional tweet. But I don't understand his alignment with Greenwald and the "Russiagate is a fake story" crowd. He seems to have concluded that because the Mueller investigation wasn't fruitful as it pertains to evidence against Trump personally, it was all a waste of time and energy and based on a false premise. It's weird to see his utter contempt for anyone who takes the reasonable position that Mueller's investigation didn't yield a smoking gun on the Trump front, but did reinforce the evidence that Russian intelligence took an active role in disrupting our electoral process. I understand being skeptical that the investigation would result in outcomes like impeachment, but I have trouble with his reasoning beyond that.

I still think he's smart and can be insightful, I just don't understand, as a very casual observer, how he got to where he is on some issues.

I'd encourage you to listen to the interview. You get a pretty clear view of his head-space. He specifically talks about a lot of things pertaining to the ways in which the media has become an echo chamber that demonizes people who question the narrative of the day. People like Greenwald weren't saying that Russia Gate was a "fake story". They asserted that the media was overplaying it's influence and sensationalizing the story without sticking to known facts.

They also shared my personal opinion on Russia is that is was a way for the media to deflect attention away from any form of thoughtful conversation the larger reasons that Clinton lost. Instead of failed policy, or poor campaigning or the entrenched bias of the DNC during the primaries that pissed off 1/3 of the base.... we got a full year of the Maddow's of the world screaming Russia, Russia, Russia. The reasons for Clinton's loss suddenly became little more than Russia (and Bernie Sanders). The DNC completely skated by without any sort of true reform.

Worse yet, the focus on Russia came at the expense of focus on Trump's actual policies. And the media's complete abandonment of objectivity (as seen here: Trump Is Testing the Norms of Objectivity in Journalism) in covering Trump combined with the inability to find a smoking gun fueled Trump's ability to scream fake news and his supporters willingness to tune out valid criticisms of a very dangerous administration. It's impact is still being felt right now- as his base is unwilling to listen to concrete evidence- in large part because we dealt with two years of "Russia".

Furthermore, accusing people of being Russian assets is suddenly the go-to tactic if the establishment wants to discredit somebody who doesn't take the establishment position on foreign policy. See: Gabbard, Tulsi. Or Greenwald, Glenn. Like Greenwald is an award winning journalist. The guy that Snowden trusted to hand the leaks over. The guy whose investigative journalism just helped free Lula from prison in Brazil. And yet, reddit is full of people who downvote anything the Intercept (a publication that also houses award winning writers like Naomi Klein and Russ Grimm) publishes while accusing it of being a Russia propaganda outlet. It's such a dangerous and slippery slope. And it's become common practice. Heck, you are sort of doing it right here.

As to Rogan, I have mixed feeling on him (he is basically a progressive libertarian with a couple of positions that piss the sociologist inside of me off). But I respect the fact that he brings people of all ideologies onto his show and has managed to build a space where both the right of center Gen Xers and progressive milennials feel at home. I also recommend the podcast Citations Needed. They do a great job of breaking down and analyzing modern media narratives and why they exist.



 
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15 straight national polls show Bernie defeating Trump. This one by a +8. Can't say the same of Warren or Pete. Or Biden anymore.

"In response to the survey, the Sanders campaign pointed to the senator's strength among independent voters as evidence that he is the candidate best-suited to take on Trump in the general election.

According to the SurveyUSA poll, Sanders— would defeat Trump by 10 percentage points among independents. The survey showed Biden defeating Trump among independents by a smaller margin of six percent."



@Indymisanthrope I will respond in depth to your other post when it isn't a Saturday night ;)
 
On the local news this morning they were talking to a financial expert about the student loan debt crisis.

Here are some takeaway points from what he said. And all of them do not sound like a solution.

First major talking point. Do not count on student loan debt relief or elimination in the future that some presidential candidates are promising. There is zero chance of it passing both the house and the senate. Especially with the special interest groups involved.

For people who already have student loan debt here is the advice given.

  • You should never cut back on your 401k contributions to put towards student loans.
  • You should always pay 2x the minimum payment. Whether all at once or 2 payments a month.
  • Create a budget and follow it to make sure you are putting what ever money that you can towards paying off your student loan deb.
  • Have your bank set up a save the change account and apply all that money towards your student loans..
  • Payoff your higher interest student loans first.
For those considering going to college
  • Have a serious discussion with your family on whether or not you can afford to go to college.
  • Go to that local community collage over that $70,000 a year ivy league school you got accepted to if you can't afford it.
  • Community colleges are cheaper than State Schools
  • If you are unsure what you want to do consider postponing college.
  • If you can't afford college, don't go. It's financially responsible. You don't want to set yourself up for failure / not being able to pay back your loans.
Basically what I hear, if you can't afford the ever increasing cost of getting an education, don't get it.

Also, pay 2x your minimum payments? I'm living paycheck to paycheck just trying to pay student loans and covering the cost of living. Sure I could give up records, but that would not be anywhere close to being able to pay 2x a month on my student loan debt. Which by the way is more now 11 years after graduation than it was when I graduated due to using forbearance during the recession and when I was laid off.
 
Yeah, I'm guessing that the combination of Utah, a 27 year old stepmom, and a 13 year old kid means that there is another story underneath the first story, wherein "decency" has been weaponized in service of a personal vendetta.
Yeah, as soon as I saw the biological mother filed the complaint I rolled my eyes.
 
On the local news this morning they were talking to a financial expert about the student loan debt crisis.

Here are some takeaway points from what he said. And all of them do not sound like a solution.

First major talking point. Do not count on student loan debt relief or elimination in the future that some presidential candidates are promising. There is zero chance of it passing both the house and the senate. Especially with the special interest groups involved.

For people who already have student loan debt here is the advice given.

  • You should never cut back on your 401k contributions to put towards student loans.
  • You should always pay 2x the minimum payment. Whether all at once or 2 payments a month.
  • Create a budget and follow it to make sure you are putting what ever money that you can towards paying off your student loan deb.
  • Have your bank set up a save the change account and apply all that money towards your student loans..
  • Payoff your higher interest student loans first.
For those considering going to college
  • Have a serious discussion with your family on whether or not you can afford to go to college.
  • Go to that local community collage over that $70,000 a year ivy league school you got accepted to if you can't afford it.
  • Community colleges are cheaper than State Schools
  • If you are unsure what you want to do consider postponing college.
  • If you can't afford college, don't go. It's financially responsible. You don't want to set yourself up for failure / not being able to pay back your loans.
Basically what I hear, if you can't afford the ever increasing cost of getting an education, don't get it.

Also, pay 2x your minimum payments? I'm living paycheck to paycheck just trying to pay student loans and covering the cost of living. Sure I could give up records, but that would not be anywhere close to being able to pay 2x a month on my student loan debt. Which by the way is more now 11 years after graduation than it was when I graduated due to using forbearance during the recession and when I was laid off.

Yeah - not getting an education isn't a solution and while I agree with financially educating yourself and looking at community colleges the idea that 17 and 18 year olds know what their career is going to be is ridiculous. The model of using your high-school age years to explore different fields, as is done in some other countries, is something the U.S. should've incorporated into its model a very long time ago, but as it is 13-18 year olds are taught to regurgitate certain facts and dates instead of learning things like geology, genetics, economics, and computer engineering.

The point about ivy league schools is dumb too. Many ivys have free or next to free tuition for the non-legacy kids, making them cheaper than many state schools. The intensity of the research, at least in my experience, is different at certain institutions. I have professional colleagues that do not problem solve nearly as well as some others and some of that issue has to do with where they were educated.

The problem as it's presented is that American expectations are wrong and the actions of teenagers and their parents impractical. Instead, the problem should be about the false non-profit status of many many schools, the rising laborforce of administrative paper pushers, the lack of practical job skills taught in secondary education, the impacts of the real estate scam on college campuses and their surrounding areas, and (perhaps most importantly) the financial institution scam that is profiting off of the backs of college kids and their parents.

College isn't the only answer and that it has presented as such has done a great disservice to people, BUT for many jobs, including the ability to advance to the management level, an advanced degree is required. All of the data points to better outcomes (economic, health, happiness) for people with at least a secondary education.

There probably is no fixing things for those that have already been screwed, but we can chose to have different rules and policies for the people that come next.

All of it is about inequality. Where some people are more at risk and more desperate than others. We live in a country where we blame the individual for everything instead of looking at the systems that promoted their choices and behaviors.
 
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All I want to know is why we labeled any generation after the Boomers? I get why the term was coined for "Baby Boomers", but what was the catalyst for the rest? I digress, regardless of your generation, as a last minute boomer (64), all I see ramping up, and it's been brought up already, are more and more ways to divide the population as a whole instead of uniting it.

It's everyone's fault and no ones, but the powers that be need to keep stocking those division inducing fires because it helps their agenda. Maybe someday we'll figure out how to break the cycle.
 
Writer from the New Yorker. Link to Fed Reserve report is linked to the original tweet.

The craziest part of that data is that there are substantially more millennials than Gen Xers.

IMG_20191125_135258_113.jpg
 
Writer from the New Yorker. Link to Fed Reserve report is linked to the original tweet.

The craziest part of that data is that there are substantially more millennials than Gen Xers.

View attachment 23867

I don’t like this narrative that basically says that my parents and thier generation are the problem and are terrible people. I take much more issue with the proportion of wealth that is held by 1% of the worlds population than I am in starting a pointless and divisive generation war. Me, and most of my contemporaries, would not own any property without the significant financial help of our boomer parents. The issue is not there, it is with the ultra wealthy controlling the political agenda to protect their own wealth.
 
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