Political Discussion

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Everyone (mostly) is very liberal when they're younger.

I would just say that the same people that will say their about policy in a face to face discussion, probably don't do much policy research or exploration and their narrative or belief about policies like NAFTA come from the predominant message that's going on around them. Suburban blues in WI and MN still watch fox news and in some places, because of the money in tv station ownership, the fox stations actually have more liberal mesaging than the local NBC affiliates (that's opinion of course).

Most people are too busy, too overworked, too stressed, too whatever to actually pay close attention to anything other than messaging. The Midwest, particularly states like MI, OH, and non-Philadlephia PA are held-up as blue union strongholds, except that less than 15% of people in those state are unionized and the police unions have all been controlled by the liberal racist narrative. Minorities don't trust government - obviously. Government union folks don't trust government because of the adversarial nature of their relationship and suburban liberals are often wealthy and fiscally conservative which is why they might vote blue nationally but for red state and fed reps.

I hope your side can pull it out in 2020, but without more personality and understanding more about what people in the Midwest want it's going to be hard to get out the vote again.

All fair. And I appreciate the sentiment.

I'd just add that, yes, people tend to be more liberal when they are younger. The difference is that millenials have only grown more liberal with time because of the great recession, modern realities (rampant student debt, making 20 percent less than Boomer did at the same age despite being more educated and life being way more expensive, lack of benefits, 60 hour work weeks being the average, climate change and the threat of exinction) and just being far more accepting on the whole of minority groups. The flow of money that turned Boomers to the fiscal right has shut off.

In fact, data actually shows that Gen Z and Millenials are being pushed leftward by the Trump era.

Right now, I think Biden becomes the nominee for two reasons. 1) He is gonna mop of the south and it's heavily older, blacker community 2) Bernie and Warren are gonna split the progressive vote.

But that doesn't mean I ain't gonna fight it and then sob afterwards when it happens. Biden = extinction imo.

 

[Sonicpharmacist]

Interesting. Here in the Twin Cities the wealthy Republican suburbs are less conservative than there I imagine . Here they want to protect their land and their tax dollars but they really don't want to see themselves as racially or socially insensitive - so women really turned out to vote against what had went down during the first two years of Trump in the midterms... I'm less sure they will vote blue again if we're in a war with Iran or the market is booming and benefiting their investments.

My dad is a self-admitted Constitutional Conservative. He believes in “God, guns, and glory” (not convinced about the God part though). He moved from San Diego to Minneapolis, and it just makes me chuckle that the most conservative person I know lives in Minneapolis. Well, Eden Prairie to be specific.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I watch MSNBC. I think Chuck Todd is a hack, and I despise Chris Matthews. Other than them, I think MSNBC is alright. Yeah, I voted for HRC in 2016 (and I’d do it again to save us from the Republican party), but I did not “blindly” vote for her, and I most certainly am not part of her base.

Touche'. I literally don't know anyone who watches either unless it's on at the gym... in large part cause everyone has cut the chord on their cable.

MSNBC covered Biden's campaign more than all other campaigns combined last time someone in the media checked the data. Maddow has spent the past 3 years yapping about Russia and pushing blame away from the DNC while ignoring many of Trump's dangerous policy decisions (because her overlords don't really care). I like Chris Haynes though

Personally, I rely on Democracy Now, The Guardian, The Intercept AMD a touch of NPR and WaPo. But I'd say most of my less political friends are more on the NPR/BBC train while for the many activists I know it's shit like Common Dreams and the Intercept. Certainly don't think that's the norm though

 

[Sonicpharmacist]

That doesn't surprise me at all. The millenial political philosophy is a very small bubble here...and there's a lot conservative white folk in the city. They know they can't get too loud or they'll get shouted down but they're here in full force. There's some intersting things going on locally with some wealthy conservatives in MN trying to fight the renaming of the lakes from racist white guys to the aboriginal names.

I should ask him about the lakes thing. Truth be told, I have no idea how my dad feels about DJT. He hated him in the primaries, but you bet your ass he voted for him over Clinton. I want to ask.....but I don’t too.

 

[Sonicpharmacist]

Lol - Don't ask! Sometimes it's best not to know.

I’d have to be supremely drunk to ask.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I should ask him about the lakes thing. Truth be told, I have no idea how my dad feels about DJT. He hated him in the primaries, but you bet your ass he voted for him over Clinton. I want to ask.....but I don’t too.

Family + Trump is a delicate balance. My 1st cousin who is twenty years older became conservative because A) he married a Pakastani Christian who fled to the US to avoid persecution from Muslims B) after he had kids, his mom moved to Coloardo with her husband who happens to be John McCain's best friend from his time as a POW. The combined influences got him watching Fox News which pushed him off the cliff.

I tried the conversation once in regards to Trump and he gave me the economy's good answer. I didnt really respond but then sent him some articles about how the only portion of the economy that is doing well is job rates (even if their shit jobs) and people who are wealthy enough to own stocks.

He never responded. Presumably because he has stocks. Meanwhile, my brother and his wife are now on non-speaking terms because the last time they were together she went off on how Omar was a planted here by a Muslim nation in order to bring us down from the inside. Two days later the massacre in NZ happened and my brother decided he wanted nothing to do with her. It doesnt help that my brother is a climate scientist who has a low tolerance for evangelicals who want the world to end.

There will undoubtedly be upper middle class whites who vote Trump because their stocks have recovered. There will also be people like my roommate's dad. A rural Marylander who was GOP until Iraq and the recession and supported Bermie in the primary before voting Trump in the general (because he figured anything was better than Clinton and he was pissed at the DNC) and then immediately regretted it.

 

[Sonicpharmacist]

Family + Trump is a delicate balance. My 1st cousin who is twenty years older became conservative because A) he married a Pakastani Christian who fled to the US to avoid persecution from Muslims B) after he had kids, his mom moved to Coloardo with her husband who happens to be John McCain's best friend from his time as a POW. The combined influences got him watching Fox News which pushed him off the cliff.

I tried the conversation once in regards to Trump and he gave me the economy's good answer. I didnt really respond but then sent him some articles about how the only portion of the economy that is doing well is job rates (even if their shit jobs) and people who are wealthy enough to own stocks.

He never responded. Presumably because he has stocks. Meanwhile, my brother and his wife are now on non-speaking terms because the last time they were together she went off on how Omar was a planted here by a Muslim nation in order to bring us down from the inside. Two days later the massacre in NZ happened and my brother decided he wanted nothing to do with her. It doesnt help that my brother is a climate scientist who has a low tolerance for evangelicals who want the world to end.

There will undoubtedly be upper middle class whites who vote Trump because their stocks have recovered. There will also be people like my roommate's dad. A rural Marylander who was GOP until Iraq and the recession and supported Bermie in the primary before voting Trump in the general (because he figured anything was better than Clinton and he was pissed at the DNC) and then immediately regretted it.

My story isn’t quite as jaw dropping as yours. Like I said, my dad despised Trump in 2016, but voted for him anyways. I do not know his feeling about DJT now. My in-laws are die hard MAGAts. My father-in-law sends my wife horrible, bigoted, anti-Muslim emails and memes all the time. I used to get them too, but every once in a while I would respond. I no longer receive those emails.

 

[Nee Lewman]

I agree. I also don't think that person exists due to 2 factors. A) the 2010 elections wiped out a lot of young leaders B) a lot of politicians were terrified of his policies or bought out in 2016.

Pete has a huge # of red flags buried in his rhetoric. Beto takes more money from fossil fuels than any other politician in the DNC. I live in CA and Harris fought reform at every step as a prosecutor and no activist I knows trusts her. Especially because her career was easy at every step and no clean politician makes it up the food chain in CA.

The best options imo are Warren and Bernie by a substantial margin. That doesn't mean I don't wish they were younger.

I mean I don’t like Harris, but a prosecutor’s job is to ensure the law is upheld by defeating people who break it. Whether it’s reformers, Petty theives or big corporations.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Apparently the house passed a bill that requires candidates to report foreign meddling in elections to the FBI. Such as Russia reaching out and saying I have dirt on your opponent.

You would think it would be a non brainer that this bill would also pass the senate.

But nope. Mitch would not even allow the vote on the floor.

 

[Sonicpharmacist]

Apparently the house passed a bill that requires candidates to report foreign meddling in elections to the FBI. Such as Russia reaching out and saying I have dirt on your opponent.

You would think it would be a non brainer that this bill would also pass the senate.

But nope. Mitch would not even allow the vote on the floor.

Because the members of the GOP have collectively traded in their souls for an extra vote.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I mean I don’t like Harris, but a prosecutor’s job is to ensure the law is upheld by defeating people who break it. Whether it’s reformers, Petty theives or big corporations.

She didn't always do that though.

Kamala Harris Fails to Explain Why She Didn't Prosecute Steven Mnuchin's Bank

The former California attorney general, now a U.S. senator, wouldn't say why she didn't prosecute the bank owned by Trump's treasury secretary nominee.

www.google.com

Meanwhile, despite campaigning on reform, she forced voters to go to the polls in order to get rid of the three strikes felony rule.

Those are just 2 examples.

 

[Enoch]

She didn't always do that though.

Kamala Harris Fails to Explain Why She Didn't Prosecute Steven Mnuchin's Bank

The former California attorney general, now a U.S. senator, wouldn't say why she didn't prosecute the bank owned by Trump's treasury secretary nominee.

www.google.com

Meanwhile, despite campaigning on reform, she forced voters to go to the polls in order to get rid of the three strikes felony rule.

Those are just 2 examples.

A fairly old article but I thought it did a good job of explaining her law career

Kamala Harris’s controversial record on criminal justice, explained

Harris has characterized herself as a reformer. But some critics disagree.

www.vox.com

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

"A nationwide Fox News poll released Sunday shows President Donald Trump trailing Senator Bernie Sanders, 49 percent to 40 percent among all registered voters nationwide.

The Fox poll also showed Biden leading Trump by 49 percent to 39 percent. Also beating Trump in the poll were Senators Elizabeth Warren (43%-41%) and Kamala Harris (42%-41%), and Mayor Pete Buttigieg (41%-40%) of South Bend, Indiana."

FOX News Poll: Bernie Sanders Would Beat Trump By 9 Points | Common Dreams

A nationwide Fox News poll released Sunday shows President Donald Trump trailing Senator Bernie Sanders, 49 percent to 40 percent among all registered voters nationwide. The Fox poll also showed Biden leading Trump by 49 percent to 39 percent. Also beating Trump in the poll were Senators...

www.commondreams.org

 

[Nee Lewman]

"A nationwide Fox News poll released Sunday shows President Donald Trump trailing Senator Bernie Sanders, 49 percent to 40 percent among all registered voters nationwide.

The Fox poll also showed Biden leading Trump by 49 percent to 39 percent. Also beating Trump in the poll were Senators Elizabeth Warren (43%-41%) and Kamala Harris (42%-41%), and Mayor Pete Buttigieg (41%-40%) of South Bend, Indiana."

FOX News Poll: Bernie Sanders Would Beat Trump By 9 Points | Common Dreams

A nationwide Fox News poll released Sunday shows President Donald Trump trailing Senator Bernie Sanders, 49 percent to 40 percent among all registered voters nationwide. The Fox poll also showed Biden leading Trump by 49 percent to 39 percent. Also beating Trump in the poll were Senators...

www.commondreams.org

But the polls pretty much said the same thing in ‘16 and yet, here we are.

As cynical as it sounds, I’m not sure he just relinquishes Power should he lose.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

But the polls pretty much said the same thing in ‘16 and yet, here we are.

As cynical as it sounds, I’m not sure he just relinquishes Power should he lose.

The polls in 2016 did a poor job of capturing traditional non voters who turned out in full force for him. The same was true of Sanders during the primary though. And I'd hope that now those voters are registered, they'd be easier to track. Perhaps not though.

As to you "cynical" comment? I get where you are coming from.

 

[Nee Lewman]

The polls in 2016 did a poor job of capturing traditional non voters who turned out in full force for him. The same was true of Sanders during the primary though. And I'd hope that now those voters are registered, they'd be easier to track. Perhaps not though.

As to you "cynical" comment? I get where you are coming from.

The other problem is that the DNC just sort of assumed they’d won and Clinton didn’t really stick the landing. Hopefully, they learned that lesson.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Can Warren and Bernie just combine forces already?

Wall Street Donors Are Swooning for Mayor Pete. (They Like Biden and Harris, Too.) (Published 2019)

Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris are generating the most buzz, but for different reasons. Hometown candidates like Kirsten Gillibrand and Bill de Blasio are stirring less excitement.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

I hate the financial institutions of America.

I know Bank of America was sued for this and had to make a payout recently.

Banks process debits before credits to maximize fees.

Last night all my auto payments were taken out of my bank account prior to them crediting my direct deposit. Result, 3 NSF fees of $35 for a total of $105.

Calling them and bitching went no where. They were like you didn't have the funds in your account plain and simple. Everything went in and out at 12:00 am. So why should I be on the hook if they took the money out for my auto payments before they put the money in from my direct deposit / paycheck.

That sucks. I hate auto pay because of this. From working at a bank in the past (not B of A) banks run credit before processing debits but there is typically a “batch cutoff time” where everyone’s accounts get balanced it usually occurs in the wee hours of the morning but the specific time frame would vary by bank. If it was a local small town bank or credit union and as long as this is an infrequent occurrence you could like speak with someone who would be able to refund the fees as a one time customer courtesy. Unfortunately mega banks are designed to make it damn near impossible for their customers.

 

[Enoch]

The other problem is that the DNC just sort of assumed they’d won and Clinton didn’t really stick the landing. Hopefully, they learned that lesson.

She ended up campaigning in states she wasn't going to win anyway and therefore lost in the "important" states, though she did well in Texas

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

So I wound up publishing it this afternoon. Only reposting so that people can share it should they want to.

Pop Stars, Biden and Climate Change: Or Learning to Embrace the Existential and Enjoy the Dread

One of my favorite musician’s of this decade is Vancouver electro-pop queen Grimes (Claire Boucher) who has made a career of mining the…

medium.com