The NBA Thread

DownIsTheNewUp said:
Not gonna lie. Parts of this felt pretty patronizing. As if I don't know NBA history and the traditional lack of parity.

Even during the Jordan era things didn't feel inevitable most years. (Granted I also saw the 93-97). You had the Shaq / Penny Magic. Barkley and the Suns give them good run. Even that last Jazz series was competitive. And there were no super teams. Same for the Kobe / Gasol and later Spurs years. See the Spurs winning in 14', Dirk leading his team in 11', ext.

Furthermore, the lack of parity really boils down to a couple of glamor franchises who get first pick of everything. Whether that means star FA, role players on discounts, buyouts or guys like Austin Reeves refusing to be drafted so they can go to the Lakers. Even Kobe was a variant of that. And the league has done a solid job of combating that too. RFA. The repeater tax. Ext.

But it boils down to this, we watch the sport for different reasons. And I come from the view of a die hard fan of a long suffering small-market team. I don't like watching dynasties in general. But I especially have 0 interest in watching a team blast everyone on their way through the playoffs. At that point, I'm not even gonna bother watching the fucking playoffs. And I think it's rad af when players like Dame or Reggie or Dirk or Duncan (though Dirk and Duncan were always contending) form a bond with a small market and want to be lifers. It's moronic that you frame that from an ownership standpoint. How about the fans? The kids that get to watch the entire career of a player. The fans that don't have to have their heart broken when a star player on a really good team (Melo, Lebron, KD) forces his way out to a bigger market.

And I'm certainly not gonna respect a player who wants to be considered top 10 all-time when he joins a 70 win, already won a title team. That's cupcake shit.
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don't mean for it to be patronizing, but the "i love parity" line is always used when it comes to KD and it simply doesn't make sense to me. there's hardly parity in the NBA when it comes to who wins every year. There have been a few surprises along the way of course (Raps, Pistons, Mavs), but the chances that the warriors weren't going to the Finals without KD were still insanely high. They drafted smartly, planned for the cap spike and developed talent well. They lucked out with some team friendly deals along the way too. But they made the most of it. I can't hate on a team that did things "the right way" and were successful.

The NBA CBA is structured in a way that it's easy to maintain players, go over the cap to re-sign , etc. and when a team like the Warriors doesn't care about luxury or repeater tax, the likelihood that they have a prolonged Finals run is very very high outside of injuries.

And I kinda disagree about the glamor franchise thing. Lakers post-Phil were a mess. They didn't get big FAs to sign there unless they were past their prime (that Dwight/Nash Slam magazine cover is hilarious to look at now). Even when Bron signed there because he wanted a hollywood career, the only reason they got people to sign with them was because of Klutch forcing an AD trade. They didn't really get anybody great to sign there on a huge discount unless they were past their prime guys like Melo. As for the Austin Reaves thing, this happens with tons of teams. Fox refused to work out with a bunch of teams to go play for the Sacramento Kings. THE KINGS lol. Haliburton also tried to push his way to the Kings. Steph Curry wanted to go to the Knicks so refused a workout with the Warriors. They drafted him anyway. Players and their agents often try to get guys who are mocked late 1st round into the 2nd round to get a better contract and more player-friendly deal to become a UFA sooner. And if you're not mocked until the late 2nd, it's smarter to go undrafted if you know a team wants you.

I agree it's very cool when somebody stays loyal to a team for their whole career. And some of my favorite champs over the past 20-30 years have been underdog teams like the Pistons. But I also understand why KD wanted to leave OKC, why Bron wanted to leave Cleveland, why Dwight and Shaq wanted out of Orlando, etc. don't forget Timmy and Kobe also demanded trades at points in their careers. When people spend a ton of time analyzing careers and say "that guy can't be an all-time great because he didn't win a ring", then I don't feel bad at all when players want out.

But it boils down to this, we watch the sport for different reasons.
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I'm a Knicks fan so I think we do watch the sport for the same reasons haha. Not sure who your team is.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
More importantly, even during the Jordan era things didn't feel inevitable most years. (Granted I also saw the 93-97). You had the Shaq / Penny Magic. Barkley and the Suns give them good run. Even that last Jazz series was competitive.
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As someone who worshiped the Bulls during the 90s I can tell you the only teams the Bulls fans ever feared after finally getting past the Pistons were the Ewing/Stark Knicks and the Reggie/Smits Pacers. No one in the West ever made us sweat. Even the 95 Magic, the year that Jordan unretired mid-season, didn’t cause us much worry (it’s why Nick Anderson stealing the ball from Jordan to seal game 6 and the series hurt so much). Every Finals The Bulls won it was never a question on whether they would but how quickly and if there would be riots in the streets of Chicago.

Had Jordan not retired and they had to play those mid 90s Rocket teams, I think they would have made us sweat a bit as they were built very similarly to those Knicks and Pacers teams with Olajuwon being a superior talent to both Smits and Ewing.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Not gonna lie. Parts of this felt pretty patronizing. As if I don't know NBA history and the traditional lack of parity.

Up top- I actually felt sorry for how things played out for KD in Brooklyn. Though he did pick Kyrie. But let's not pretend he didn't put the Suns at the top of his list. Because he did. Last summer.

More importantly, even during the Jordan era things didn't feel inevitable most years. (Granted I also saw the 93-97). You had the Shaq / Penny Magic. Barkley and the Suns give them good run. Even that last Jazz series was competitive. And there were no super teams. Same for the Kobe / Gasol and later Spurs years. See the Spurs winning in 14', Dirk leading his team in 11', ext.

Furthermore, the lack of parity really boils down to a couple of glamor franchises who get first pick of everything. Whether that means star FA, role players on discounts, buyouts or guys like Austin Reeves refusing to be drafted so they can go to the Lakers. Even Kobe was a variant of that. And the league has done a solid job of combating that too. RFA. The repeater tax. Ext. Very different than the KD situation,

But it boils down to this, we watch the sport for different reasons. And I come from the view of a die hard fan of a long suffering small-market team. I don't like watching dynasties in general. But I especially have 0 interest in watching a team blast everyone on their way through the playoffs. At that point, I'm not even gonna bother watching the fucking playoffs. And I think it's rad af when players like Dame or Reggie or Dirk or Duncan (though Dirk and Duncan were always contending) form a bond with a small market and want to be lifers. It's moronic that you frame that from an ownership standpoint. How about the fans? The kids that get to watch the entire career of a player. The fans that don't have to have their heart broken when a star player on a really good team (Melo, Lebron, KD) forces his way out to a bigger market.

And I'm certainly not gonna respect a player who wants to be considered top 10 all-time when he joins a 70 win, already won a title team. That's cupcake shit.
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KG deserves mention in that group of Duncan, Dirk, Reggie, and Dame, too. He only agreed to be traded to Boston when ownership went to him and said we want to trade you, several years after he should have been asking out.
 
Wiseman to the Pistons...

I'm happy he's off to greener pastures where he can play his heart out, but damn if 5 2nd rounders are too little for him, guess that's what happens when you sell low. Hope he thrives there.
 
I'm excited for Crowder. Hopefully he has some left in the tank, especially with sitting out all year. Bucks got rid of a lot, but it was all dead weight, and I'm curious to see what we can add in the buyout market.
 
Psymon said:
KG deserves mention in that group of Duncan, Dirk, Reggie, and Dame, too. He only agreed to be traded to Boston when ownership went to him and said we want to trade you, several years after he should have been asking out.
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1000%. I almost included him while typing.

Also, this has been the worst 24 hours to be a Nuggets fan since Jamal tore his ACL. I knew we were fucked the minute all the Jamal stuff went public but god damn that Bones return is pathetic.

Talented young player feuds with Malone and gets traded for dirt is basically an annual tradition at this point. And this basically is the JR Smith trade in reverse.

The kid made all-rookie team and 2 straight rising star games and you got 2/3's of Thomas Bryant for him. Nothing to help us in the playoffs this year, nothing to help when Brown leaves in the offseason. And you sent him to a conference rival that needed an upside swing.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
1000%. I almost included him while typing.

Also, this has been the worst 24 hours to be a Nuggets fan since Jamal tore his ACL. I knew we were fucked the minute all the Jamal stuff went public but god damn that Bones return is pathetic.

Talented young player feuds with Malone and gets traded for dirt is basically an annual tradition at this point. And this basically is the JR Smith trade in reverse.

The kid made all-rookie team and 2 straight rising star games and you got 2/3's of Thomas Bryant for him. Nothing to help us in the playoffs this year, nothing to help when Brown leaves in the offseason. And you sent him to a conference rival that needed an upside swing.
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Weird trade for them. Do you think there’s a point where Malone gets fired for the Nuggets to try to hit that next level? Not sure when his contract is up.
 
MikeH said:
don't mean for it to be patronizing, but the "i love parity" line is always used when it comes to KD and it simply doesn't make sense to me. there's hardly parity in the NBA when it comes to who wins every year. There have been a few surprises along the way of course (Raps, Pistons, Mavs), but the chances that the warriors weren't going to the Finals without KD were still insanely high. They drafted smartly, planned for the cap spike and developed talent well. They lucked out with some team friendly deals along the way too. But they made the most of it. I can't hate on a team that did things "the right way" and were successful.

The NBA CBA is structured in a way that it's easy to maintain players, go over the cap to re-sign , etc. and when a team like the Warriors doesn't care about luxury or repeater tax, the likelihood that they have a prolonged Finals run is very very high outside of injuries.

And I kinda disagree about the glamor franchise thing. Lakers post-Phil were a mess. They didn't get big FAs to sign there unless they were past their prime (that Dwight/Nash Slam magazine cover is hilarious to look at now). Even when Bron signed there because he wanted a hollywood career, the only reason they got people to sign with them was because of Klutch forcing an AD trade. They didn't really get anybody great to sign there on a huge discount unless they were past their prime guys like Melo. As for the Austin Reaves thing, this happens with tons of teams. Fox refused to work out with a bunch of teams to go play for the Sacramento Kings. THE KINGS lol. Haliburton also tried to push his way to the Kings. Steph Curry wanted to go to the Knicks so refused a workout with the Warriors. They drafted him anyway. Players and their agents often try to get guys who are mocked late 1st round into the 2nd round to get a better contract and more player-friendly deal to become a UFA sooner. And if you're not mocked until the late 2nd, it's smarter to go undrafted if you know a team wants you.

I agree it's very cool when somebody stays loyal to a team for their whole career. And some of my favorite champs over the past 20-30 years have been underdog teams like the Pistons. But I also understand why KD wanted to leave OKC, why Bron wanted to leave Cleveland, why Dwight and Shaq wanted out of Orlando, etc. don't forget Timmy and Kobe also demanded trades at points in their careers. When people spend a ton of time analyzing careers and say "that guy can't be an all-time great because he didn't win a ring", then I don't feel bad at all when players want out.



I'm a Knicks fan so I think we do watch the sport for the same reasons haha. Not sure who your team is.
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All good dude. I'm sorry for the tone of my previous post. I've got a stomach bug and am as miserable as it's possible for a fan of a #1 seed to be atm. But also, I've just had this convo a zillion times.

I personally think that the #1 reason that the NBA is so regional in its passion is because so many cities think the NBA is rigged for big markets.
 
MikeH said:
Weird trade for them. Do you think there’s a point where Malone gets fired for the Nuggets to try to hit that next level? Not sure when his contract is up.
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It's not weird in the sense that he and Malone have been publicly fighting since mid-January so his value was tanked. And on top of it, Jamal would take a knife for Malone and made a comment along the lines of "we are a championship team and need players who buy into their roles" which then led to Bones sister going after Mal on Twitter.

The only reason it wasn't a complete spectacle is because it happened the day Kyrie asked out. But yeah, I hate it. Bones upside on the offensive end is somewhere on the Clarkson-Poole-Maxey spectrum. Though he HAS to learn to finish.

As to Malone, if we make the WCF he is safe. Because Jamal and Jokic love him. Does that mean I think he should be safe?

Definitely not. Case in point-- Thomas Byrant in theory should make our team better. But that would require Malone alter his backup big depending on the matchup. Which has has NEVER done. So either Bryant will play every night or not at all.
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
It's not weird in the sense that he and Malone have been publicly fighting since mid-January so his value was tanked. And on top of it, Jamal would take a knife for Malone and made a comment along the lines of "we are a championship team and need players who buy into their roles" which then led to Bones sister going after Mal on Twitter.

The only reason it wasn't a complete spectacle is because it happened the day Kyrie asked out. But yeah, I hate it. Bones upside on the offensive end is somewhere on the Clarkson-Poole-Maxey spectrum. Though he HAS to learn to finish.

As to Malone, if we make the WCF he is safe. Because Jamal and Jokic love him. Does that mean I think he should be safe?

Definitely not. Case in point-- Thomas Byrant in theory should make our team better. But that would require Malone alter his backup big depending on the matchup. Which has has NEVER done. So either Bryant will play every night or not at all.
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Yea— I saw that news about Bones. But the weird part to me is they traded for another guy who was unhappy with his role in LA and wanted more minutes and asked for a trade. Bones is very talented and I do hope he can put everythjng together. I wanted the Knicks to draft him. It’s weird because of what you said about Malone and backup bigs

Seems like guys like Thibs and Malone don’t really put up with attitudes or guys who don’t want to put the team above themselves. Reddish apparently told an assistant coach here that he was unhappy with his role and from that point forward was benched by Thibs.
 
MikeH said:
Yea— I saw that news about Bones. But the weird part to me is they traded for another guy who was unhappy with his role in LA and wanted more minutes and asked for a trade. Bones is very talented and I do hope he can put everythjng together. I wanted the Knicks to draft him. It’s weird because of what you said about Malone and backup bigs

Seems like guys like Thibs and Malone don’t really put up with attitudes or guys who don’t want to put the team above themselves. Reddish apparently told an assistant coach here that he was unhappy with his role and from that point forward was benched by Thibs.
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Thibs is completely incongruous with the modern NBA. Reddish never had a chance there.
 
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