The Super Thread - All Things Marvel/DC/Etc

gaporter said:
I really hope the rest of y'all enjoy Love and Thunder more than I did.
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I don't know how much you enjoyed it, but I am positive I enjoyed it less.
😂

I loved Ragnarok; it's in my Top 5 Marvel films.

Love and Thunder is in my bottom 5.

Somewhere there was an idea for a really good movie, but I have a feeling a lot of that movie was cut, changed, chopped, and forgot. This seems like another Iron Man 2 where the Studio dipped their fingers in a bit too much.
 
Skeletonframes said:
I don't know how much you enjoyed it, but I am positive I enjoyed it less.
😂

I loved Ragnarok; it's in my Top 5 Marvel films.

Love and Thunder is in my bottom 5.

Somewhere there was an idea for a really good movie, but I have a feeling a lot of that movie was cut, changed, chopped, and forgot. This seems like another Iron Man 2 where the Studio dipped their fingers in a bit too much.
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Yeah, I've mostly kept my mouth shut on here because I hate to come off like the fun police or piss on anyone's parade, but I like it less the more I think about it. I 100% agree that it's bottom-5 material for the MCU and it kind of depresses me that people are willing to accept a product this messy and half-assed because it means that any hope of these movies getting any better has gone out the window. If this is the standard, I don't see myself coming back to this franchise for much longer.

The main defense I've seen is people trying to argue that because it's a "comedy" you shouldn't take it that seriously, but I don't dislike Love and Thunder because it's a comedy. I dislike it because it's a bad comedy. I get humor is very subjective, but I found it to be very unfunny, and once you get past that and try to look at it as a story, it's just a mess. I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that huge chunks were cut because the studio wanted it to be under two hours and it explains a lot. Phase Four has been very shaky so far but L&T is one of the first times an MCU project has just straight up felt unfinished. I don't understand how the same creative team goes from Ragnarok to this; did Waititi just not care? Some of the interviews he's given during the press run for this movie seem to suggest that. And if the people making these movies aren't even invested, then why the hell should I be?

Phew. That felt good to get out.
 
gaporter said:
Yeah, I've mostly kept my mouth shut on here because I hate to come off like the fun police or piss on anyone's parade, but I like it less the more I think about it. I 100% agree that it's bottom-5 material for the MCU and it kind of depresses me that people are willing to accept a product this messy and half-assed because it means that any hope of these movies getting any better has gone out the window. If this is the standard, I don't see myself coming back to this franchise for much longer.

The main defense I've seen is people trying to argue that because it's a "comedy" you shouldn't take it that seriously, but I don't dislike Love and Thunder because it's a comedy. I dislike it because it's a bad comedy. I get humor is very subjective, but I found it to be very unfunny, and once you get past that and try to look at it as a story, it's just a mess. I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that huge chunks were cut because the studio wanted it to be under two hours and it explains a lot. Phase Four has been very shaky so far but L&T is one of the first times an MCU project has just straight up felt unfinished. I don't understand how the same creative team goes from Ragnarok to this; did Waititi just not care? Some of the interviews he's given during the press run for this movie seem to suggest that. And if the people making these movies aren't even invested, then why the hell should I be?

Phew. That felt good to get out.
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Yeah, I still haven’t seen it but when I do if it’s makes me laugh a couple dozen times it will be good enough for me. Like you said though, if they are relying on the comedy aspect of the film to carry it though without much of a plot than it damn well better be funny.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Yeah, I still haven’t seen it but when I do if it’s makes me laugh a couple dozen times it will be good enough for me. Like you said though, if they are relying on the comedy aspect of the film to carry it though without much of a plot than it damn well better be funny.
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Like I said in my post, it's really just subjective. People in my theater were laughing. I wasn't.
 
I'm behind, but Multiverse of Madness was kind of bad?

I guess the first thing would be Raimi's directing. It just doesn't hold up. So many jump scares and shots that would be better fit in a shitty horror movie. The last shot with the third eye is just the icing on the cake of cheesy bad shots. It's one thing for the cheese to be applied to his SM movies, JJJ has always been cheesy, Spiderman makes puns, it kind of works. When you apply it to a tonally serious film about the multiverse being ripped apart you get this- a film that doesn't know what it is.

Wanda becomes a mustache-twirling villain so goddamn quick. Sure, she enslaved an entire town in Wandavision, but her intentions were never to hurt anyone; just create a world that feels "stable" for her. That sounds like comic Wanda. Here, she's just outright murdering everyone, no questions asked. The makeup they use on her makes her look like a zombie, which is kinda fitting because she's absolutely mindless in this movie.

Both Mordo and Christine Palmer feel like weird holdovers from the first movie that are only here because they were set up in the first film. They don't fit, so the versions we see instead are "multiversal variants". Feels lazy, and has zero payoff for the Baron Mordo post credits scene from the first film.

The illuminati feel wasted, just a way to get fans excited about these characters before doing away with them. Without Tony Stark, T'Challa and Namor it feels very disconnected from it's comic counterpart. Ignoring the Krasinksi bullshit, Professor X and Blackbolt in particular feel like egregious fan service. Xavier in his prime should have instantly known the moment Wanda appeared in his universe, and could then erase or rewrite or mind with very little effort. At least we got to see Blackbolt use his powers once.

Oh also the few scenes with the kids were baaaaad. They were good actors in Wandavision, we even got an episode where they talk to the camera and they pull it off. Somehow they feel and act way younger in this movie. I can only asume it's the directing.

I was very disappointed, glad I didn't see it in theaters.
 
DJSJ said:
I'm behind, but Multiverse of Madness was kind of bad?

I guess the first thing would be Raimi's directing. It just doesn't hold up. So many jump scares and shots that would be better fit in a shitty horror movie. The last shot with the third eye is just the icing on the cake of cheesy bad shots. It's one thing for the cheese to be applied to his SM movies, JJJ has always been cheesy, Spiderman makes puns, it kind of works. When you apply it to a tonally serious film about the multiverse being ripped apart you get this- a film that doesn't know what it is.

Wanda becomes a mustache-twirling villain so goddamn quick. Sure, she enslaved an entire town in Wandavision, but her intentions were never to hurt anyone; just create a world that feels "stable" for her. That sounds like comic Wanda. Here, she's just outright murdering everyone, no questions asked. The makeup they use on her makes her look like a zombie, which is kinda fitting because she's absolutely mindless in this movie.

Both Mordo and Christine Palmer feel like weird holdovers from the first movie that are only here because they were set up in the first film. They don't fit, so the versions we see instead are "multiversal variants". Feels lazy, and has zero payoff for the Baron Mordo post credits scene from the first film.

The illuminati feel wasted, just a way to get fans excited about these characters before doing away with them. Without Tony Stark, T'Challa and Namor it feels very disconnected from it's comic counterpart. Ignoring the Krasinksi bullshit, Professor X and Blackbolt in particular feel like egregious fan service. Xavier in his prime should have instantly known the moment Wanda appeared in his universe, and could then erase or rewrite or mind with very little effort. At least we got to see Blackbolt use his powers once.

Oh also the few scenes with the kids were baaaaad. They were good actors in Wandavision, we even got an episode where they talk to the camera and they pull it off. Somehow they feel and act way younger in this movie. I can only asume it's the directing.

I was very disappointed, glad I didn't see it in theaters.
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I too have been a bit backed up in MCU content but within the last couple weeks watched WandaVision, Lokie, Falcon & The Winter Solider, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Dr. Strange: Multiverse Of Madness. I wasn't as down on Dr. Strange as you but it was the least entertaining of all the aforementioned titles. I think after Loki, an Spider-man I was expecting them to go completely bonkers with the multiverse but it felt a bit more buttoned up than I thought it'd be. I do think I woulda enjoyed Strange a bit more if I saw it in on the big screen from a visual effects standpoint.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I too have been a bit backed up in MCU content but within the last couple weeks watched WandaVision, Lokie, Falcon & The Winter Solider, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Dr. Strange: Multiverse Of Madness. I wasn't as down on Dr. Strange as you but it was the least entertaining of all the aforementioned titles. I think after Loki, an Spider-man I was expecting them to go completely bonkers with the multiverse but it felt a bit more buttoned up than I thought it'd be. I do think I woulda enjoyed Strange a bit more if I saw it in on the big screen from a visual effects standpoint.
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Yeah for being "The multiverse" of madness, we really spent most of our time on earth 838, which is really similar to ours (The one they stupidly call 616, the designation for the Marvel comics universe. Everyone knows the MCU is earth 19999, So stupid)

The scene where Stephen and America are thrown through diffrent dimmensions was cool from a VFX standpoint, much like the scene in the first film where The Ancient One unlocks Stephens mind. But it does make me question how and why the multiverse is portrayed so diffrently in the season finale of Loki then it is in MoM and NWH. Loki and Dr Strange even share the same writer. It's becoming kind of a clusterfuck

My Phase 4 rankings for movie and TV

Eternals
Spiderman: No Way Home
(Big gap here)
Black Widow
Shang Chi
Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

Hawkeye
Wandavision
Loki
(Big Gap here)
Falcoln and the Winter Soldier
What If?

Haven't seen Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel yet. Excited most for She Hulk.
 
DJSJ said:
Haven't seen Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel yet. Excited most for She Hulk.
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I have not seen these yet either but I really enjoyed Lemire's Moon Knight and Charles Soule's She-Hulk runs so if those shows can at least hit a similar tone like they did (to some extent) with Faction/Aja's Hawkeye and Tom King's Vision then I will be very happy.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I have not seen these yet either but I really enjoyed Lemire's Moon Knight and Charles Soule's She-Hulk runs so if those shows can at least hit a similar tone like they did (to some extent) with Faction/Aja's Hawkeye and Tom King's Vision then I will be very happy.
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She Hulk has so many good comic runs if you end of watching the show and crave more. I really like the John Byrne run in the 80's where he added the 4th wall breaking aspect to the character. Peter David and even bum-ass Dan Slott have great runs in the 00's.

I've read a bit of Moon Knight but just can't get into it (which is fine, there's already more than enough shit I want to read). Reminds me a lot of Legion from the X-Men.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I have not seen these yet either but I really enjoyed Lemire's Moon Knight and Charles Soule's She-Hulk runs so if those shows can at least hit a similar tone like they did (to some extent) with Faction/Aja's Hawkeye and Tom King's Vision then I will be very happy.
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I can't say how much you'll enjoy Moon Knight overall --I personally loved it, but know folks who didn't-- but there are definitely some great nuggets of Lemire liberally sprinkled within.
 
I'm all for campy and stupid superhero films. Multiverse of Madness is pretty high up the list for me, even though I am aware of it's many shortcomings and stupid plot points. I'm sure they'll explain away Wanda's descent into straight "horror movie villain" as some effect of the Darkhold. I'm fine with that. It seems in-line with a comic explanation, anyway. The reason I think I enjoyed Multiverse of Madness and not Thor 4 is because it told a complete story. A lot of that story can be questioned, in hindsight, but at least it was there for the audience and didn't happen off-screen.
For a villain called the God Butcher we sure do miss out on A LOT of the god butchering in Thor. Shit, the hero "kills" just as many gods on-screen as the villain does in Love & Thunder.


I'm still excited for where the MCU is heading. Whether it be toward Kang the Conqueror, Secret Wars, Mutants, or all of the above. I didn't like Moon Knight, but I loved Ms Marvel. I didn't like Captain America: The First Avenger, but Winter Soldier is my favorite Marvel movie. Hell, I'm even in the short list of people that really like Iron Man 3. And we all know that Iron Man 2 is the worst of the worst when it comes to MCU. So, I'll be in for Thor 5 if there is one. I do worry that they may be spreading their resources a bit thin, though, with so many projects happening at once.
 
gaporter said:
I've long since accepted that I'm on an island in regards to Multiverse of Madness being my favorite movie of Phase Four. The Raimi-isms worked on me, what can I say?
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You are not alone, I actually liked DSMOM quite a bit. Thought it was a great mix of creativity, fan service, and Raimiisms. Not without its flaws but what is (besides CA:TWS and the original Spiderman 2).
 
gaporter said:
Yeah, I've mostly kept my mouth shut on here because I hate to come off like the fun police or piss on anyone's parade, but I like it less the more I think about it. I 100% agree that it's bottom-5 material for the MCU and it kind of depresses me that people are willing to accept a product this messy and half-assed because it means that any hope of these movies getting any better has gone out the window. If this is the standard, I don't see myself coming back to this franchise for much longer.

The main defense I've seen is people trying to argue that because it's a "comedy" you shouldn't take it that seriously, but I don't dislike Love and Thunder because it's a comedy. I dislike it because it's a bad comedy. I get humor is very subjective, but I found it to be very unfunny, and once you get past that and try to look at it as a story, it's just a mess. I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that huge chunks were cut because the studio wanted it to be under two hours and it explains a lot. Phase Four has been very shaky so far but L&T is one of the first times an MCU project has just straight up felt unfinished. I don't understand how the same creative team goes from Ragnarok to this; did Waititi just not care? Some of the interviews he's given during the press run for this movie seem to suggest that. And if the people making these movies aren't even invested, then why the hell should I be?

Phew. That felt good to get out.
Click to expand...
I'm going to play both sides and say I liked and disliked Thor 4. My biggest issue was the tonal shifts between the rom-com elements and some pretty heavy themes re: Gorr and Jane. I think if they had committed to either of those throughout it would have been much better (although agree that the jokes didn't feel as original or funny this time around).

But I did enjoy the "love triangle" and thought pretty much everything involving Christian Bale was fantastic. Maybe I'm biased because I know the Gorr storyline from the comics and can fill in the some of the gaps they left off the screen, but you can't argue that Bale was on a different level than the rest of the cast, and making that more the focus of the second half really helped me enjoy it. I walked out liking it less than Thor 3 and consider it a minor entry in the series, but still pretty pleased.

I'm still waiting for something in Phase 4 to click like anything in the earlier phases did. I really liked WandaVision, Loki and Moon Knight up until the finales but then they fell victim to either the "big CGI battle" mandate or exhausting setups for something else. I liked Black Widow way more than most but it was basically a Phase 3 movie anyway, and as fun as SM:NWH was most of that came from the pre-MCU cast. I really hope these start fitting together more soon.
 
CroutonBoy said:
I'm going to play both sides and say I liked and disliked Thor 4. My biggest issue was the tonal shifts between the rom-com elements and some pretty heavy themes re: Gorr and Jane. I think if they had committed to either of those throughout it would have been much better (although agree that the jokes didn't feel as original or funny this time around).

But I did enjoy the "love triangle" and thought pretty much everything involving Christian Bale was fantastic. Maybe I'm biased because I know the Gorr storyline from the comics and can fill in the some of the gaps they left off the screen, but you can't argue that Bale was on a different level than the rest of the cast, and making that more the focus of the second half really helped me enjoy it. I walked out liking it less than Thor 3 and consider it a minor entry in the series, but still pretty pleased.

I'm still waiting for something in Phase 4 to click like anything in the earlier phases did. I really liked WandaVision, Loki and Moon Knight up until the finales but then they fell victim to either the "big CGI battle" mandate or exhausting setups for something else. I liked Black Widow way more than most but it was basically a Phase 3 movie anyway, and as fun as SM:NWH was most of that came from the pre-MCU cast. I really hope these start fitting together more soon.
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Yeah, I think what frustrates me most about Love & Thunder is that the pieces were definitely there but the execution felt so rushed and messy that I can't in good conscience say I enjoyed it 100%. I feel like they dropped the ball on developing cool ideas like Gorr and Jane Foster becoming the Mighty Thor in favor of the comedy, which I wouldn't have minded so much if the humor had been at the same level of Ragnarok, but idk, it just didn't hit the same for me. Gorr was definitely my favorite part and I wish we'd gotten to see his character fleshed out more. Christian Bale did great with what he was given, but I think giving him more screentime could have helped make him feel like more of a threat. It's not the worst thing to come out of the MCU or even the worst thing I've paid to see in the theater this year (hard to imagine the new Jurassic World being topped in that regard), but I was left wanting more than what I got.

I think you've touched on the issues I'm having with the MCU as of late, that being there's really not much of a connecting thread between all these new projects. It kind of feels like Disney is throwing a lot at the wall to see what sticks without having any sort of endgame (haha) planned, which is a big shift from Phases 1-3, where things felt much more unified and cohesive. The films worked a lot better for me when they were developing one grand threat over time and building the individual stories around that rather than introducing all these new characters and concepts that don't seem to have much to do with each other. I'm sure at some point there will be an event that ties a lot of the individual projects together, but right now things feel so disjointed that it's hard for me to stay invested.
 
I hear the criticism a lot of about Phase 4 feeling unfocused, and personally it feels more to me like seed planting for a wide breadth of new projects. Maybe it's just because I'm very familiar with marvel comics, but it feels to me theres some clear stories and teams they're setting up.

We're looking at Thunderbolts and Young Avengers, Kang being set up as the new big bad (though I could do with more seed planting outside Loki) and possibly Secret Wars down the line after we get the FF and Doom introduced. That all sounds great to me.
 
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