Vinyl Me Please Classics

Ghost said:
Lee Newman said:
I mean this is what Stewart was talking about. There is no conversation here with you. You are deciding what other's intentions are based on your bias on the subject. I'm sorry but you can't tell me what my intentions are or what Stewart's were - I do agree he was defending his friend but at the end of the day, that fact doesn't invalidate what he said.

The problem with cancel culture is that there is no discussion. I also think Mr. Weinstein would disagree with you on permanence or real consequences (and rightfully so).

I never liked CK or his humor. It was no surprise to me that he did the things he was doing, because he told you he was doing them. It's no surprise to me that the folks who enjoyed his humor before welcomed him back with open arms.

Chappelle is telling you his intention in his comedy. The problem is that the gatewatchers have decided that it doesn't matter what his intentions are, no conversation will be had. There is a big difference between what Chappelle said in his monologue and Kanye's DEATH CON tweets and admissions to idolizing Hitler.

Just like sex and profanity, we won't get to have a healthy outlook on race/diversity/hate in this country (or anywhere) if we just shut down conversation whenever we don't like something someone said.

This is how you make the world a better place:


Not by shutting up everyone who disagrees with you or says something you dislike.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Stewart was on national television, talking with a good friend, and could have actually had that conversation if he wanted it to happen, and he instead he went meta and whined about how no conversation was possible anymore. It definitely appeared to be a deflection so he didn't have to discuss what his friend said. Yes, as a Jew (apparently my "bias"), I called it a shanda and I stand by that. You could respond to what I said but instead strawman it as an attempted shutdown.

If you think Harvey Weinstein is your best example of cancellation, that being held responsible in a court of law for his actions somehow counts, that's certainly a new definition I haven't seen before. I agree his departure from society may be permanent, there may be no coming back from that should he ever find himself a free man again... no tears spilled on my end. It still isn't cancel culture.

Nobody is gatekeeping Chapelle, either - he's getting a response to his material, same as ever, just not near-universal fawning anymore. Whether his brain was broken by becoming uber-rich, or he finally feels like he has enough fuck-you $ to say what he really feels, he now spends his time punching down. It would be easy to not do that, or to work to make well-crafted jokes that make the people being joked about feel like they're in on it together, and he's getting feedback to that effect. I agree there's a degree of difference from his monologue to Kanye or Kyrie's obvious attacks, but it certainly was heard as more of a defense of them than a repudiation. He didn't have to bring them up, or anti-semitism in general, but he chose to, and it sucked. As someone targeted by his monologue, I'm telling you it was problematic. It would behoove you to listen.

I am being the change I want to see, by not letting attacks go unremarked on or let people, especially my own people, be dismissive of the attacks. I won't get the opportunity to sit down and chat with the people saying these things, so I'm discussing their words and the impact. You rightly read my anger and interpreted that to your own ends.

Aside from the apparent over-correction by VMP regarding the Van Ronk liner notes, this conversation (largely well-deserved jokes at VMP's expense) has always been about whether or not VMP would try to come up with an excuse to justify reissuing a Kanye West album. I'd like to believe we've reached a point where they know it would be a bad business decision, especially as it comes out he's been this way for 20+ years but people have been protecting him. They previously made a public commitment to diversifying their staff and also being more intentional of the album selections they make, so we'll all find out together how long that holds.
 
Dave Chappelle whining about how hard his job is while he’s hosting SNL is just ridiculously delusional. All these sad sack losers complaining about how they’re being shut out of conversations while they’re literally being broadcast on talk shows having conversations. Dave Chapelle talks about the atrocities of slavery in the US like he personally lived through it and is here to educate everyone about the hard realities that they’re avoiding or trying to cover up or dismiss (which is great) - but then turns around and is so dismissive about Kyrie’s and Kanye’s comments and excuses them by saying that they were nowhere near the Holocaust. Is that how Dave Chapelle feels about people who claim that slavery in the US “wasn’t that bad” ?

No one is saying he should be bound and gagged and locked in an isolation chamber, but maybe he shouldn’t be given so many opportunities across so many varied platforms to spout this trash to millions of people.

I think there’s plenty of room to call out this bullshit and hold people accountable for their words actions and still have conversations. But continuing to promote and defend bigotry without accountability is not compassionate or humane.
 
Am I missing something? This Dave Van Ronk is not enticing me to rejoin. It seems like the kind of album that is canonical and supposed to be in your collection more than an album you actually want to listen to it. Why would I listen to this instead of actual blues of the time or early Dylan? For those that are really into I'd love to know why.

Am enjoying Black Nasty and I'm definitely rejoining for the Wilson Pickett though.
 
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TCell said:
Am I missing something? This Dave Van Ronk is not enticing me to rejoin. It seems like the kind of album that is canonical and supposed to be in your collection more than an album you actually want to listen to it. Why would I listen to this instead of actual blues of the time or early Dylan? For those that are really into I'd love to know why.

Am enjoying Black Nasty and I'm definitely rejoining for the Wilson Pickett though.
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I think that is a fair assessment of Van Ronk actually. He’s an important figure to the Greenwich scene but not the most exciting interpreter. He’s kind of a boring Elvis. There is definitely a romantic view of him and the Coen Brothers movie certainly brought renewed attention to him. I’ve never listened to this album, I do have a folkways record and it’s good enough but not something I go reaching for. I’m already a member though and it’s not something I would swap out, more than willing to spend time with it when I get it and see what it does for me.

It is probably his most revered album though. So if you’re gonna pick one, I guess this is the one.
 
serotonein said:
Stewart was on national television, talking with a good friend, and could have actually had that conversation if he wanted it to happen, and he instead he went meta and whined about how no conversation was possible anymore. It definitely appeared to be a deflection so he didn't have to discuss what his friend said. Yes, as a Jew (apparently my "bias"), I called it a shanda and I stand by that. You could respond to what I said but instead strawman it as an attempted shutdown.

If you think Harvey Weinstein is your best example of cancellation, that being held responsible in a court of law for his actions somehow counts, that's certainly a new definition I haven't seen before. I agree his departure from society may be permanent, there may be no coming back from that should he ever find himself a free man again... no tears spilled on my end. It still isn't cancel culture.

Nobody is gatekeeping Chapelle, either - he's getting a response to his material, same as ever, just not near-universal fawning anymore. Whether his brain was broken by becoming uber-rich, or he finally feels like he has enough fuck-you $ to say what he really feels, he now spends his time punching down. It would be easy to not do that, or to work to make well-crafted jokes that make the people being joked about feel like they're in on it together, and he's getting feedback to that effect. I agree there's a degree of difference from his monologue to Kanye or Kyrie's obvious attacks, but it certainly was heard as more of a defense of them than a repudiation. He didn't have to bring them up, or anti-semitism in general, but he chose to, and it sucked. As someone targeted by his monologue, I'm telling you it was problematic. It would behoove you to listen.

I am being the change I want to see, by not letting attacks go unremarked on or let people, especially my own people, be dismissive of the attacks. I won't get the opportunity to sit down and chat with the people saying these things, so I'm discussing their words and the impact. You rightly read my anger and interpreted that to your own ends.

Aside from the apparent over-correction by VMP regarding the Van Ronk liner notes, this conversation (largely well-deserved jokes at VMP's expense) has always been about whether or not VMP would try to come up with an excuse to justify reissuing a Kanye West album. I'd like to believe we've reached a point where they know it would be a bad business decision, especially as it comes out he's been this way for 20+ years but people have been protecting him. They previously made a public commitment to diversifying their staff and also being more intentional of the album selections they make, so we'll all find out together how long that holds.
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Ericj32 said:
Dave Chappelle whining about how hard his job is while he’s hosting SNL is just ridiculously delusional. All these sad sack losers complaining about how they’re being shut out of conversations while they’re literally being broadcast on talk shows having conversations. Dave Chapelle talks about the atrocities of slavery in the US like he personally lived through it and is here to educate everyone about the hard realities that they’re avoiding or trying to cover up or dismiss (which is great) - but then turns around and is so dismissive about Kyrie’s and Kanye’s comments and excuses them by saying that they were nowhere near the Holocaust. Is that how Dave Chapelle feels about people who claim that slavery in the US “wasn’t that bad” ?

No one is saying he should be bound and gagged and locked in an isolation chamber, but maybe he shouldn’t be given so many opportunities across so many varied platforms to spout this trash to millions of people.

I think there’s plenty of room to call out this bullshit and hold people accountable for their words actions and still have conversations. But continuing to promote and defend bigotry without accountability is not compassionate or humane.
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I mean, I think these takes remove context from his monologue. He’s not defending Kanye or Kyrie, he’s ridiculing them. He uses anti-semantic tropes to show how dumb what Kanye and Kyrie said was. He only dismisses them in the sense that he shows that what they said is so wildly taken from a stupid viewpoint that there is no reason to waste anytime being offended by it.

That’s my problem with the lack of conversation is everyone who is critical gets stuck on the outrageous shit he says as part of that whole bit instead of focusing on who exactly his target is.

It’s why I mentioned Bruce and Carlin. You can throw Pryor in there too, they use shock to make you realize the idiocy of the reaction in the first place.


Which is how the thread got derailed in the first place. The disclaimer from VMP doesn’t actually lead one to know what they are disclaiming and also doesn’t set context. It’s like the disclaimer in front of Gone With The Wind… you mean the movie about the South during the Civil War has some racist shit in it? No shit? Who would have think it.
 
Lee Newman said:
I think that is a fair assessment of Van Ronk actually. He’s an important figure to the Greenwich scene but not the most exciting interpreter. He’s kind of a boring Elvis. There is definitely a romantic view of him and the Coen Brothers movie certainly brought renewed attention to him. I’ve never listened to this album, I do have a folkways record and it’s good enough but not something I go reaching for. I’m already a member though and it’s not something I would swap out, more than willing to spend time with it when I get it and see what it does for me.

It is probably his most revered album though. So if you’re gonna pick one, I guess this is the one.
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The other thing is that I actually think it fits the marketing/mission statement well. Lost sounds found. Van Ronk is the guy who was important that’s pretty much forgotten to the masses.
 
Lee Newman said:
I mean, I think these takes remove context from his monologue. He’s not defending Kanye or Kyrie, he’s ridiculing them. He uses anti-semantic tropes to show how dumb what Kanye and Kyrie said was. He only dismisses them in the sense that he shows that what they said is so wildly taken from a stupid viewpoint that there is no reason to waste anytime being offended by it.

That’s my problem with the lack of conversation is everyone who is critical gets stuck on the outrageous shit he says as part of that whole bit instead of focusing on who exactly his target is.

It’s why I mentioned Bruce and Carlin. You can throw Pryor in there too, they use shock to make you realize the idiocy of the reaction in the first place.


Which is how the thread got derailed in the first place. The disclaimer from VMP doesn’t actually lead one to know what they are disclaiming and also doesn’t set context. It’s like the disclaimer in front of Gone With The Wind… you mean the movie about the South during the Civil War has some racist shit in it? No shit? Who would have think it.
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It seems awfully irresponsible for Chappelle or anyone else though to pretend like spreading these ridiculous and hateful ideas about Jewish people (and his own comments about trans people) are some kind of harmless offense in a world where we know that hate crimes against Jewish people and trans people have been increasing in recent years. The people who commit these hate crimes get their stupid, hateful ideas and opinions from somewhere. He’s not even trying to be a comedian anymore, he’s just a bigoted troll.
 
Anyone get the new Dreams pressing? Discogs seems to like it. I had ordered with Otis but canceled when I got the Otis box set from Rhino, so I’m wondering if I need to reorder.
 
hayema7 said:
Anyone get the new Dreams pressing? Discogs seems to like it. I had ordered with Otis but canceled when I got the Otis box set from Rhino, so I’m wondering if I need to reorder.
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I got a copy - sounds great to me. No issues on mine (maybe a tick or pop here and there, but none of the typical GZ shenanigans).
 
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