Vinyl Me Please Rap & Hip Hop

2e7en said:
Lord Finesse Reflects On Working With Big L And Explores His ‘Motown State Of Mind’ new interview with lord finesse, he's celebrating quite a few things this year, could be his album as a way to promote his anniversaries?
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Ha, with people guessing that again in the new thread, I totally forgot that the album wasn't '95. So if it's this one, then Storf missed the year (again) and missed that it had been guessed already. I wish I could say that ruled it out :ROFLMAO: (except I think it would be a much better pick than Play)
 
dhodo said:
You definitely make good points about the specic album, although I don't know all the lyrics so I'm not sure what's on this one.

But, just to add to that, that pledge was really only focused on not calling for violence against homosexuals, not to stop homophobia. Additionally, he didn't stop performing the songs that did call for violence after that pledge and has had several shows cancelled because of it. He is not remorseful about saying that he feels being gay is wrong.

I'm not trying to debate when people should be boycotted or not, just wanted to add that because I can understand why someone would want to do so and I don't think it is really a case of forgiving someone's past or not because he doesn't seem very regretful or apologetic.

I didn't really find out about all of this stuff until after I had gained an appreciation for Buju Banton, Capleton, and Sizzla and I had never noticed those specific references in their music that are offensive in that way. It is something that I still haven't decided how I want to deal with it. I don't have a problem still enjoying songs of theirs that don't have those types of lyrics, but I haven't really had to decide if I want to give them more money or not.
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Thanks for adding even more context. I hear you 100%. I used to hold my son and dance to "Tour" with him as a toddler, never once thinking about this stuff. It's all tricky and, as far as remorse from any of these artists -- aside from someone like Killer Mike, perhaps -- you have to question how much of their "remorse" is tied directly to album sales.

My only real purpose in commenting here is that in @supahypeag's post, they bring up an incredibly valid issue and I don't want it to seem like anyone believes they are "clutching pearls" by introducing the controversy-- it's important. That's not an overreaction on any level to bring this to light. I appreciate it. On the other side, I don't want it to seem like I or anyone else here is okay with those sort of sentiments and justifying them. These conversations have a tendency to, almost instantly, separate people into 2 opposing factions and rarely to the benefit of the conversation or anyone involved in it. I'd like to believe that we all view those lyrics and viewpoints as horrific. They are fucked up.

I never got the VMP Doggystyle, because some of those lyrics even hit me weird these days. Meanwhile, I probably mumble at least one line from it to myself daily and it's never a socially responsible one.

I'm just playing process of elimination Guess Who style; not judging where the line of acceptability is. Like you, I'm not even sure where mine is, to be completely honest. It's murky.
 
Dead C said:
Thanks for adding even more context. I hear you 100%. I used to hold my son and dance to "Tour" with him as a toddler, never once thinking about this stuff. It's all tricky and, as far as remorse from any of these artists -- aside from someone like Killer Mike, perhaps -- you have to question how much of their "remorse" is tied directly to album sales.

My only real purpose in commenting here is that in @supahypeag's post, they bring up an incredibly valid issue and I don't want it to seem like anyone believes they are "clutching pearls" by introducing the controversy-- it's important. That's not an overreaction on any level to bring this to light. I appreciate it. On the other side, I don't want it to seem like I or anyone else here is okay with those sort of sentiments and justifying them. These conversations have a tendency to, almost instantly, separate people into 2 opposing factions and rarely to the benefit of the conversation or anyone involved in it. I'd like to believe that we all view those lyrics and viewpoints as horrific. They are fucked up.

I never got the VMP Doggystyle, because some of those lyrics even hit me weird these days. Meanwhile, I probably mumble at least one line from it to myself daily and it's never a socially responsible one.

I'm just playing process of elimination Guess Who style; not judging where the line of acceptability is. Like you, I'm not even sure where mine is, to be completely honest. It's murky.
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My response was also poorly written AND based on a misreading your post (and because I’m really not super familiar I didn’t even recognize that the video you posted was to Doug E. As I’ve said, I’m far from an expert on RHH). There had been a couple of posts before yours about homophobia being pretty standard in 90s, so I assumed your post was along those lines. I was attempting in my response to differentiate my (and I believe others’) general tolerance for dated slurs in old songs and my inability to get on board with an artist that had used language advocating violence against homosexuals. I had read about his apology being hollow and that also informed my reaction to his music. But I’m a straight white guy in Texas over 40 years old, so I definitely didn’t feel like I should be the one to lead a charge against him, as I know nothing about his scene or culture other than the 20 minutes I spent googling him to determine the likelihood of his being selected. That’s why I was walking back about “not leading a boycott”...I didn’t feel like it’s my fight to make or my story to tell...and if I misunderstood the artist or if there were other reasons to still support him, I didn’t want to preach to others that they should not support him. TLDR: I didn’t and don’t feel qualified to make a judgment about whether others should listen to his music...it just didn’t seem like my thing, so that’s why I walked back the statement.

@Dead C, I think we were both kind of coming at the artists from the same place. My main purpose was to evaluate whether VMP would select that artist was a RHH pick. And I think I now understood your point about Doug E Fresh to be VMP maybe wouldn’t select that album because of that problematic lyric. Anyway, I hope this inarticulate ramblings have shed some light in where I was coming from in my previous post
 
supahypeag said:
My response was also poorly written AND based on a misreading your post (and because I’m really not super familiar I didn’t even recognize that the video you posted was to Doug E. As I’ve said, I’m far from an expert on RHH). There had been a couple of posts before yours about homophobia being pretty standard in 90s, so I assumed your post was along those lines. I was attempting in my response to differentiate my (and I believe others’) general tolerance for dated slurs in old songs and my inability to get on board with an artist that had used language advocating violence against homosexuals. I had read about his apology being hollow and that also informed my reaction to his music. But I’m a straight white guy in Texas over 40 years old, so I definitely didn’t feel like I should be the one to lead a charge against him, as I know nothing about his scene or culture other than the 20 minutes I spent googling him to determine the likelihood of his being selected. That’s why I was walking back about “not leading a boycott”...I didn’t feel like it’s my fight to make or my story to tell...and if I misunderstood the artist or if there were other reasons to still support him, I didn’t want to preach to others that they should not support him. TLDR: I didn’t and don’t feel qualified to make a judgment about whether others should listen to his music...it just didn’t seem like my thing, so that’s why I walked back the statement.

@Dead C, I think we were both kind of coming at the artists from the same place. My main purpose was to evaluate whether VMP would select that artist was a RHH pick. And I think I now understood your point about Doug E Fresh to be VMP maybe wouldn’t select that album because of that problematic lyric. Anyway, I hope this inarticulate ramblings have shed some light in where I was coming from in my previous post
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Yeah. I don't think you're wrong and I'm not taking your posts as negative, at all. I just didn't want you to feel like you were being viewed as overreacting for raising valid concerns. I think it might have been @TenderLovingKiller® that mentioned homophobia being commonplace, but I didn't take his post as justifying it either, just that it's an unfortunate reality. Unfortunately, as @dirty hands pointed out, the slurs might not even be a disqualifier in the case of what they choose to select as a ROTM, either.

There's a lot to unpack.

It's tricky because, if we are really looking at major label releases in particular and discussing who gets our money and who we do choose to boycott, then we also have to look into who is running these labels and receiving the lion's share of these profits while exploiting the culture. We don't support an artist anymore at all, because of one song, but we buy albums from the same label. These record moguls likely have some terrible views and even more reprehensible actions. I mean, they are the ones that release and profit from the product without issue, not to mention that it's a racist opportunistic industry on a completely other level.

The artists are always dispensible in the corporate music machine. It's just like when we hear about some shitty racist and/or homophobic owner of a professional sports franchise. They've always been sitting back and collecting money while players destroy themselves, each other, get cancelled, or get arrested. A lot facilitates all of this, but there's a lot to dig through. And like with sports, certain figures are justifiably booted. Other figures are unjustifiably let slide. Depending on their value to the business and, generally, how much the public likes them determines how much leeway and forgiveness they are offered. Justin Bieber just needed a celebrity roast to scrub his image. Chris Brown, I'm guessing, danced his way out of it? Not sure. I don't follow that closely enough.

But, to be completely honest, I just wanted ODB. A 90s Doug E Fresh album isn't gonna do it for me. At least Capleton would show the track getting some diversity, but we clearly know the issues there. Plus, Prophecy should still be easy to find cheap, anyway. That Doug E. is probably like a $4 album. Maybe they surprise me with Big L or something. In general, I'm not too hopeful.

Edit: It just hit me, after I typed that, that Big L uses the slur on at least one track, too, and he's too dead to apologize. There's no hope.
 
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Dead C said:
Yeah. I don't think you're wrong and I'm not taking your posts as negative, at all. I just didn't want you to feel like you were being viewed as overreacting for raising valid concerns. I think it might have been @TenderLovingKiller® that mentioned homophobia being commonplace, but I didn't take his post as justifying it either, just that it's an unfortunate reality. Unfortunately, as @dirty hands pointed out, the slurs might not even be a disqualifier in the case of what they choose to select as a ROTM, either.

There's a lot to unpack.

It's tricky because, if we are really looking at major label releases in particular and discussing who gets our money and who we do choose to boycott, then we also have to look into who is running these labels and receiving the lion's share of these profits while exploiting the culture. We don't support an artist anymore at all, because of one song, but we buy albums from the same label. These record moguls likely have some terrible views and even more reprehensible actions. I mean, they are the ones that release and profit from the product without issue, not to mention that it's a racist opportunistic industry on a completely other level.

The artists are always dispensible in the corporate music machine. It's just like when we hear about some shitty racist and/or homophobic owner of a professional sports franchise. They've always been sitting back and collecting money while players destroy themselves, each other, get cancelled, or get arrested. A lot facilitates all of this, but there's a lot to dig through. And like with sports, certain figures are justifiably booted. Other figures are unjustifiably let slide. Depending on their value to the business and, generally, how much the public likes them determines how much leeway and forgiveness they are offered. Justin Bieber just needed a celebrity roast to scrub his image. Chris Brown, I'm guessing, danced his way out of it? Not sure. I don't follow that closely enough.

But, to be completely honest, I just wanted ODB. A 90s Doug E Fresh album isn't gonna do it for me. At least Capleton would show the track getting some diversity, but we clearly know the issues there. Plus, Prophecy should still be easy to find cheap, anyway. That Doug E. is probably like a $4 album. Maybe they surprise me with Big L or something. In general, I'm not too hopeful.

Edit: It just hit me, after I tyoed that, that Big L uses the slur on at least one track, too, and he's too dead to apologize. There's no hope.
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I think ultimately no matter what album gets selected, it won’t be exciting because it’s not ODB. I was really wanting that one
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Yeah, I might go that way. I think @Chris V is doing the same thing with OB4CL... this month. I might take his lead and grab ODB instead.
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same. The only reason I don’t have it is because I’ve bought too many rap reissues that sound bad. I sold Ironman because I wasn’t happy with the sound. I have that version of OB4CL that was in a plain black cover with a sticker and I need to double check but I remember being disappointed by it. Currently it’s in a pile of albums to sell at a local shop when possible. Don’t even get me started on Enter the 36 Chambers. I had the 180g version and it was still awful. Liquid Swords and Tical are currently the only Wu-Tang projects on my shelf.
 
I have the clear numbered MOV pressing of Wu 36 Chambers and honestly... I don't know that it's ever going to sound any better. I mean it's rough, and the bass doesn't hit that hard and it's low quality but.... that's pretty much just what the album sounds like. It was recorded on super cheap gear with low quality samples. I don't think you'll ever get a version that sounds any better unless you get someone to literally rebuild and remix the entire album from scratch.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I liked my copy (the one posted) of OBFCL . I just listened to it the other day. It isn’t the best ever but it’s a competent average modern pressing.
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I hear you, man. Like Mather said, a lot of RZA’s earlier production is never going to be audiophile but I feel like I have to fuck around with my system so much to get that Rae to sound how I want it to. The original CD actually is probably the best I’ve heard Cuban Linx
 
Mather said:
I have the clear numbered MOV pressing of Wu 36 Chambers and honestly... I don't know that it's ever going to sound any better. I mean it's rough, and the bass doesn't hit that hard and it's low quality but.... that's pretty much just what the album sounds like. It was recorded on super cheap gear with low quality samples. I don't think you'll ever get a version that sounds any better unless you get someone to literally rebuild and remix the entire album from scratch.
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it sounds better than the regular reissues for sure, but the digital version and the original cassette sound so much better. I couldn’t even listen to the vinyl after comparing them unfortunately.
 
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