Political Discussion

Joe Mac said:
Why does your Dad assume that the rest of the world gives enough of a shit to get involved in the second American Civil War?
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The assumption is not about civil war part II bigger, dumber, and more racistier. The assumption is that if Trump wins he ends the wars with Israel and in Ukraine. If Harris wins they escalate into Iran, Russia and China vs NATO.
 
Nee Lewman said:
The assumption is not about civil war part I dumber and more racistiet. The assumption is that if Trump wins he ends the wars with Isreal and in Ukraine. If Harris wins they escalate into Iran, Russia and China vs NATO.
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Fair enough. I don’t think either WW3 or a civil war is likely but I think a civil war is way more likely and that appeasing despots leads to world wars way more than standing up to them.
 
Very odd that people think Kamala is going to commit us to World War 3 when we're telling Bibi to not bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and keeping Russia from further invading former Soviet bloc countries. If Trump takes over, sure it won't start WW3 because he'll just let Putin and Bibi do whatever the hell they want. It just floors me that the party of Reagan is now the party that thinks Putin is a good guy.
 
mdmost said:
Very odd that people think Kamala is going to commit us to World War 3 when we're telling Bibi to not bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and keeping Russia from further invading former Soviet bloc countries. If Trump takes over, sure it won't start WW3 because he'll just let Putin and Bibi do whatever the hell they want. It just floors me that the party of Reagan is now the party that thinks Putin is a good guy.
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Again, this is not their posit. They are saying Harris is weak and that the despots will be emboldened by her presidency to unleash war on the West.

I also don’t believe the GOP believes or likes 75% of Trump’s shit but they have lost control of their useful idiot.
 
Vinyl&Kicks86 said:
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I don’t know the particulars of how they did it. It’s for the lithium for Harris’s husband and to hurt the red states because they can’t rig the election. She moves the post herself several times.

What is the deal with lithium? Why do they think this is an undercover scheme to mine lithium (and I’ve heard that they’re doing it to people, the mining)? Is it to power Musk’s cars or is Emhoff really clinically depressed? WTF?
 
mdmost said:
Very odd that people think Kamala is going to commit us to World War 3 when we're telling Bibi to not bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and keeping Russia from further invading former Soviet bloc countries. If Trump takes over, sure it won't start WW3 because he'll just let Putin and Bibi do whatever the hell they want. It just floors me that the party of Reagan is now the party that thinks Putin is a good guy.
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As opposed to now, when Biden and Harris are also letting Netanyahu do whatever he wants.
 
ayayrawn said:
With Trump you won't get fake lip service and non-leaks about how Biden calls Bibi a dummy jerk in private or about how we're "doing all we can to put pressure on Israel" - whatever that means.
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It would be like the Dems in 2020, criticizing Trump's handling of the pandemic. Magically, once Biden got into office, ceased to be a problem! If Trump was the one currently overseeing and underwriting the genocide, you bet your ass the discourse and media environment wouldn't be the soft baby shit it currently is.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
As opposed to now, when Biden and Harris are also letting Netanyahu do whatever he wants.
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Has he hit the nuke sites? Has he put troops in Iran? That's what he'd like to do. He's also actively standing in the way of a ceasefire in the hopes of not helping Kamala get a victory. Sure, we should cut them off. I've never said otherwise. Doing that risks handing Trump the election and that's something that cannot happen.
 
mdmost said:
Has he hit the nuke sites? Has he put troops in Iran? That's what he'd like to do. He's also actively standing in the way of a ceasefire in the hopes of not helping Kamala get a victory. Sure, we should cut them off. I've never said otherwise. Doing that risks handing Trump the election and that's something that cannot happen.
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Why move the goalposts to Iran? He's killed hundreds of thousands in Gaza and so far several thousands in Lebanon (including, today, an attack on UN peacekeepers!). If he's standing in the way of a ceasefire—and to be clear, I agree with you that he is—why doesn't Biden force him to, cut off the weapons supply, and stop giving him the diplomatic cover? Him failing to do that is what pushes the election in Trump's favour.

And with regard to Iran, how is this helping? On top of feting Cheney and all the other neocons who have been lusting after war with Iran for decades, she's quite literally helping to manufacture consent for it:

 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
Why move the goalposts to Iran? He's killed hundreds of thousands in Gaza and so far several thousands in Lebanon (including, today, an attack on UN peacekeepers!). If he's standing in the way of a ceasefire—and to be clear, I agree with you that he is—why doesn't Biden force him to, cut off the weapons supply, and stop giving him the diplomatic cover? Him failing to do that is what pushes the election in Trump's favour.

And with regard to Iran, how is this helping? On top of feting Cheney and all the other neocons who have been lusting after war with Iran for decades, she's quite literally helping to manufacture consent for it:

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Hmmm what other state has American blood on its hands....
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
Him failing to do that is what pushes the election in Trump's favour.
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I think we all here wish things would be handled much differently. I think most of us think things would be worse under Trump.

If you think this is a driving factor in the election you haven’t talked to many Americans. Most don’t even know where to find Israel on a map.

As long as America doesn’t have boots on the ground most won’t give a shit.
 
That's consistent with how we've been with Iran for decades. The second Biden cuts off Israel, that becomes a wedge issue that Trump can use as he paints the entire Democratic ticket as anti-semitic since any move against Israel is now anti-semitism to some in this bullshit world we now live in. We didn't war with Iran the entirety of the Obama presidency and Biden presidency. I doubt a Kamala presidency wants to have a war with Iran. If that was the case, Israel would already be doing it.
 
mdmost said:
That's consistent with how we've been with Iran for decades. The second Biden cuts off Israel, that becomes a wedge issue that Trump can use as he paints the entire Democratic ticket as anti-semitic since any move against Israel is now anti-semitism to some in this bullshit world we now live in. We didn't war with Iran the entirety of the Obama presidency and Biden presidency. I doubt a Kamala presidency wants to have a war with Iran. If that was the case, Israel would already be doing it.
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I think the issue is what is the context of what is being discussed. This being the Politics thread, some of us look at world events from the context of the upcoming US Presidential election while other are viewing these world events from a much broader lens.

This creates debate where there really isn’t any. We talk around each other. No one here is voting for Trump. No one here thinks what the Israel government is doing is right. The criticism of the US government’s handling of the conflict is understandable and warranted. Being critical of the current situation without acknowledging that the situation under Trumps leadership would be much worse is myopic.
 
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ayayrawn said:
With Trump you won't get fake lip service and non-leaks about how Biden calls Bibi a dummy jerk in private or about how we're "doing all we can to put pressure on Israel" - whatever that means.
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You also get zero pressure for a two state solution and instead of private consternation you get public affirmation. Not to mention you get a guy that seems super cool with the idea of apartheid.

Policy matters most but perception and influence matters too.
 
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