Political Discussion

TenderLovingKiller® said:
I have a hard time understanding why it is so hard to comprehend that not voting (if you live in a swing state) is the same as voting for the greater evil because, like it or not one of those two people will be elected president.
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I’d say it matters period. Once everyone decides not to vote out of objections to one policy or another, our democracy will truly be lost and some one far worse than Trump will capitalize on it.
 
Nee Lewman said:
I’d say it matters period. Once everyone decides not to vote out of objections to one policy or another, our democracy will truly be lost and some one far worse than Trump will capitalize on it.
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We're already going to have somebody worse than Trump in 10 years when he is decently dead. And at that point we're still going to be like "look I know Liz Cheney/Nikki Haley or whoever the fuck isn't the purest dem candidate but u HAVE to vote for them."
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
This is such a defeatist way of looking at things.
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I mean can you blame me? Apparently brazenly genocidal foreign policy (which you're not allowed to speak out against within the party or else) and buddying with neocons aren't dealbreakers anymore, what other direction is there to go in? It's the inevitable destination at our current trajectory.
 
I was watching the local NBC station for the noon news hour, and they had political report reporting the latest national polls. It was a NBC produced segment that the local station ran.

Pretty much just gave me more anxiety about the upcoming election. It's far too close, much closer than it ever should be.

Both Trump and Harris are tied at equal odds of winning. They mention Harris has recently lost her 5 point lead. Republicans have more than 70% chance of taking control of the senate and will keep the house.

A total red takeover of our government where the Republicans have full control is far too much of a likelihood for my likes.


Trump as a 16 point lead with men, and Harris has a 14 point lead with women.
 
ayayrawn said:
Like there's so many posts here along the lines of "i'm not a fan of the genocide, but i'll vote for her." What else will we end up tolerating down the line?
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this is directed at you just this conversation. Please give me a viable option and I’ll take but sitting out isn’t a viable option for me. I feel like we are having two different conversation about the same thing. I think people should continue to protest and come out against the US support for Israel. I also believe my voice on this subject is listened to more under a Democratic President than a MAGA President.

If someone is disillusioned this much in the process they why spend time on a politics thread? The candidates are the candidates. If you are not down with making the best out of a shitty situation then why put forth effort at all. I don’t feel like saying both parties are bullshit, don’t vote. is a political statement so much as a statement of nihilism.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
I was watching the local NBC station for the noon news hour, and they had political report reporting the latest national polls. It was a NBC produced segment that the local station ran.

Pretty much just gave me more anxiety about the upcoming election. It's far too close, much closer than it ever should be.

Both Trump and Harris are tied at equal odds of winning. They mention Harris has recently lost her 5 point lead. Republicans have more than 70% chance of taking control of the senate and will keep the house.

A total red takeover of our government where the Republicans have full control is far too much of a likelihood for my likes.


Trump as a 16 point lead with men, and Harris has a 14 point lead with women.
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Polls are bullshit.

Remedy your anxiety by voting. If you are still anxious volunteer. Make calls to battleground voters. Give money, etc…
 
I mean I live in a battleground state. I do happen to live in a blue area of that state. However, my house is in an older predominantly white, predominately upper middle class neighborhood. There are no Trump signs. There are Harris/Walz signs even third house or so. I have a hard time believing the polls. I would think my neighborhood would reflect it. There is one house flying a Gettysburg flag and I assume that seemingly sweet old lady, god bless her heart, is voting for Trump, but I ain’t convinced the other two thirds with no signs are. I’m more likely to think they are like me -independent and don’t feel compelled to announce support for their vote because it’s not that full throat.
 
ayayrawn said:
Like there's so many posts here along the lines of "i'm not a fan of the genocide, but i'll vote for her." What else will we end up tolerating down the line?
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Because the alternative is a lot worse for the people you claim to care about. Not just in Gaza but in our own country. He will deport Muslims. He will ban people from entering our country seeking asylum. He will forcefully put down protests with police or military. Don't believe me? He's done it before. He will allow Ukraine to be totally overrun by Russia, leading to more genocide. He will allow outright hatred and persecution of non-white, non-Christian, non-straight, transgender, and non-Republican people. If you want a theocracy, you're about to get one if he's elected.
 
Nee Lewman said:
My line is not voting for the authoritarian jackass she is running against.
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This just reads to me that there is no limit to depraved and evil dem policy as long as it's against Trump.

TenderLovingKiller® said:
this is directed at you just this conversation. Please give me a viable option and I’ll take but sitting out isn’t a viable option for me. I feel like we are having two different conversation about the same thing. I think people should continue to protest and come out against the US support for Israel. I also believe my voice on this subject is listened to more under a Democratic President than a MAGA President.

If someone is disillusioned this much in the process they why spend time on a politics thread? The candidates are the candidates. If you are not down with making the best out of a shitty situation then why put forth effort at all. I don’t feel like saying both parties are bullshit, don’t vote. is a political statement so much as a statement of nihilism.
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Again, voting is like the very first rung on the ladder. Getting involved in your community, volunteering, learning and informing, joining your local chapter, mutual aid, general strikes, etc are all way more important than whichever psychopath you'd like to vote for in federal government. Being disillusioned in what is obviously a dysfunctional, illusory process does not mean I don't care or am a nihilist. Politics is and always has been more than that. Nothing in this world was made better or won solely by voting.
 
mdmost said:
Because the alternative is a lot worse for the people you claim to care about. Not just in Gaza but in our own country. He will deport Muslims. He will ban people from entering our country seeking asylum. He will forcefully put down protests with police or military. Don't believe me? He's done it before. He will allow Ukraine to be totally overrun by Russia, leading to more genocide. He will allow outright hatred and persecution of non-white, non-Christian, non-straight, transgender, and non-Republican people. If you want a theocracy, you're about to get one if he's elected.
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Almost all of this is already happening right now.
 
ayayrawn said:
This just reads to me that there is no limit to depraved and evil dem policy as long as it's against Trump.


Again, voting is like the very first rung on the ladder. Getting involved in your community, volunteering, learning and informing, joining your local chapter, mutual aid, general strikes, etc are all way more important than whichever psychopath you'd like to vote for in federal government. Being disillusioned in what is obviously a dysfunctional, illusory process does not mean I don't care or am a nihilist. Politics is and always has been more than that. Nothing in this world was made better or won solely by voting.
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You can read it how you want to and I agree with the second part of your post.

However, I remember clearly how scary it was during Trump’s first four years, how the country was pretty much at war with itself and not just in a theoretical/rhetorical way. I mean actual violent things happening. Actual vigilantes killing those they saw “doing wrong” and getting away with it. and a president who either looked the other way or encouraged it. I remember him setting up a Supreme Court that would start to chip away at personal rights and give corporations what they wanted. I remember him wanting testing to stop and arguing with scientists about a pandemic when I was working in a hospital where people died from it daily. I remember him suggesting people ingest bleach. I remember watching a mob that he incited raid the capital and try to prevent the election from being certified. I remember people who voted for him saying “well I thought he would do the things I cared about, not all the awful things he talked about.” I remember him buddying up with our enemies while our allies collectively went “what the fuck?”

So yeah, forgive me if I’d much rather have something similar to the last four years.
 
ayayrawn said:
I mean can you blame me? Apparently brazenly genocidal foreign policy (which you're not allowed to speak out against within the party or else) and buddying with neocons aren't dealbreakers anymore, what other direction is there to go in? It's the inevitable destination at our current trajectory.
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Not trying to be that guy but this is not a new thing. America has propped up some of the most brutal dictators in history, this shit has been going on for a while. Not saying it is ok or right but I just have to trust my instinct that Trump is going to be objectively worse for the rest of the middle east if that possible. Not only that, most Republicans/Conservative Christians believe Israel are God's chosen people so they will stop at nothing to make that known and further that notion. That whole shit in the first Trump administration acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is proof of that. That was done for no reason other than to piss the Palestinian people off. It's a shit situation no matter how you look at it. The world generally disgusts me these days but I will keep voting for the candidates who I believe will make a collective of peoples lives better even though I realize they are going to do some shit I wholeheartedly disagree with. I just don't think there is any solution in the middle east other than completely cutting off funding to Israel which is not going to happen from either party.
 
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ayayrawn said:
Almost all of this is already happening right now.
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There's a Muslim ban right now? We're deporting actual immigrants here legally or under protective status like what he wants to do with the Haitians in Ohio? We're using the National Guard and/or military to put down protests? We're deporting people protesting against Israel? We're abandoning Ukraine and allowing Russia to commit genocide there now?
 
Nee Lewman said:
You can read it how you want to and I agree with the second part of your post.

However, I remember clearly how scary it was during Trump’s first four years, how the country was pretty much at war with itself and not just in a theoretical/rhetorical way. I mean actual violent things happening. Actual vigilantes killing those they saw “doing wrong” and getting away with it. and a president who either looked the other way or encouraged it. I remember him setting up a Supreme Court that would start to chip away at personal rights and give corporations what they wanted. I remember him wanting testing to stop and arguing with scientists about a pandemic when I was working in a hospital where people died from it daily. I remember him suggesting people ingest bleach. I remember watching a mob that he incited raid the capital and try to prevent the election from being certified. I remember people who voted for him saying “well I thought he would do the things I cared about, not all the awful things he talked about.” I remember him buddying up with our enemies while our allies collectively went “what the fuck?”

So yeah, forgive me if I’d much rather have something similar to the last four years.
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I swear Covid has created a fog where people don't remember just how bad it was under Trump. And that was a time when people were actively getting in his way to put the brakes on his worst impulses. That won't be the case the 2nd time. If you can't see that, you are sticking your head clearly in the sand.
 
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