Political Discussion

Nee Lewman said:
He doesn’t want to research vaccines not on the market, he wants to research the ones that are already out there with long histories of proven effectiveness like the measles vaccine.
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Yeah, I'm aware. As long as they aren't pulled in the meantime, who cares? I'm very pro-vaccine, but I guess my life has also been a case study in the effects of the gross ways big pharma and western medicine intangle. So perhaps I have a little more tolerance for questioning the system.

I was on Ritilan + welbutrin for ADD by the time I was in 2nd grade. By 7th grade, I had been misdiagnosed as bi-polar after a half-heartened suicide attempt. I spent my teenage years on a grip of mood stablizers that made me act legit bi-polar. Many of them are no longer on the market and had wild side effects like causing me to put on 30 lbs in less than a month (after being drastically underweight from the adderall).

My freshman year of college, I went off all the meds, and, shocker, I wasn't anything close to actually being bi-polar. Just ADD. Now I have a chronic auto-immune disorder that I can't help but wonder is a ripple effect of all the drugs. And meanwhile, I had to experiment with my diet and attempt acupuncture on my own before discovering them life altering.

And again, I want to clarify, I am very pro-vaccine and the such. I'm eagerly awaiting the one for Epestein-Barr. The same Peruvian friend I mentioned earlier, is still alive because Stanford found a cure for cystic fibrosis and works in vaccine research. I also think the silver lining of the pandemic is going to MRNA tech.

But that doesn't mean that it's long gone ignored that huge chunks of our system are broken.
 
Ghost said:
Definitely still bullish on the overhaul of the American food system though. That's something this country desperately needs. To me living longer and healthier is one positive outcome of a better food system, but the real positive comes from the mental health gains that come from not poisoning yourself day after with food that robs you of your clarity, energy, and health. I think everyone is a better version of themselves when they have proper nutrition.
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I do agree with you on the food system points. I think it's something that is very badly needed in this country. However, I am skeptical the corporations in charge of our food supply would ever allow it to happen. And even if they actually do somehow get on board, I assume it would make all food even more expensive then it already is. With that said, I would love to be wrong about that and to have it actually come to fruition.
 
My wife works in clinical trials for a third party firm (basically insuring they are done ethically and by international standards)… The only time I’ve ever been truly concerned about a vaccine was covid. When I had the opportunity to get the shot early, I called her and asked her thoughts. Especially being immunocompromised (have Ankylosing Spondilitis which is currently being treated by Humira - autoimmune diseases can be a lot of fun to diagnose), I was very concerned about the speed the vaccines were being created. She said she saw no reason for me not to take it, but she waited to take it because she was pregnant with the 3 yo and she was not confident in the studies that had been done regarding pregnant women at that time.

Long story short, with a bit of a view behind the curtain, I’m pretty confident vaccines are rigorously studied before they hit the streets. I do have some concerns about other pharmaceuticals though.
 
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This came out yesterday where RFK quickly commented on what Trump has appointed him to do:

1. Get corporate influence out of govt agencies, he specifically mentions pharmaceutical influence holding federal agencies "captive", he mentions the food industry being one thats held captive by Big Pharma
2. "Return them back to evidence based science" idk what that means
3. "End the chronic disease epidemic" "Trump wants measurable concrete results within the next 2 years"

Doesn't seem like he has the power to go anti-vax in his position. In an extended cut of that interview he says "I'm not going to take away any vaccines. If a vaccine works for you then you should have access to that vaccine. I want the best science for every vaccine"

 
My wife was not engaged until she married me. She decided Romney was a bridge too far and voted for Obama in her very first election. Her thought was if you don’t participate, you don’t get to complain about it.

She was in tears yesterday morning because some dumbfuck from another country emailed her group with something along the lines of “since there wasn’t anything important going on in the news, they should all buckle up to make (her company) great again.”

I feel sorry that I ruined all of that for her and also reflect on how far we’ve moved from W and Romney being “evil”
 
Ghost said:
This came out yesterday where RFK quickly commented on what Trump has appointed him to do:

1. Get corporate influence out of govt agencies, he specifically mentions pharmaceutical influence holding federal agencies "captive", he mentions the food industry being one thats held captive by Big Pharma
2. "Return them back to evidence based science" idk what that means
3. "End the chronic disease epidemic" "Trump wants measurable concrete results within the next 2 years"

Doesn't seem like he has the power to go anti-vax in his position. In an extended cut of that interview he says "I'm not going to take away any vaccines. If a vaccine works for you then you should have access to that vaccine. I want the best science for every vaccine"

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Trump doesn’t care about any of this though that is the problem. RFK has the ability to sound reasonable while pushing things that are dangerous. So if he is brought in and as long as he doesn’t cause Trump any issues he will pretty much have free rein over the health system to do whatever he wants.
 
Ghost said:
This came out yesterday where RFK quickly commented on what Trump has appointed him to do:

1. Get corporate influence out of govt agencies, he specifically mentions pharmaceutical influence holding federal agencies "captive", he mentions the food industry being one thats held captive by Big Pharma
2. "Return them back to evidence based science" idk what that means
3. "End the chronic disease epidemic" "Trump wants measurable concrete results within the next 2 years"

Doesn't seem like he has the power to go anti-vax in his position. In an extended cut of that interview he says "I'm not going to take away any vaccines. If a vaccine works for you then you should have access to that vaccine. I want the best science for every vaccine"

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He’ll work to deregulate the structures that mandate them currently though, which will lead to deaths. He’s going to make them optional which will cause deaths. He was a big spark in the measles epidemic in California a few years ago.
 
LiamGallaghersBucketHat said:
Sometimes I am a little envious of people who don't vote at any level and just live their lives without any of that interference. But then I think, how do they do it.
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I didn’t vote in any capacity until I was 29. It wasn’t even willful ignorance, it just never occurred to me for whatever reason. I just didn’t understand anything but I also wasn’t interested in understanding. Then I awoke. That’s the only thing I’ll ever give Trump credit for.

I imagine there’s hundreds of thousands, if not millions, out there that think similarly on both accounts.
 
Nee Lewman said:
He’ll work to deregulate the structures that mandate them currently though, which will lead to deaths. He’s going to make them optional which will cause deaths. He was a big spark in the measles epidemic in California a few years ago.
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This is the point I feel many are missing. He doesn't want to get rid of vaccinations, rather put the choice in the hands of the individual(or their guardian); and as we saw yesterday, a lot of people in this country are really fucking dumb, and will make choices that will eventually harm them as well as their fellow citizens.
 
There will be more disinformation going forward on vaccines now which will lead to more people opting out which will lead to more people dying from preventable diseases. It's disheartening that the worst elements of social media played a huge hand in this election and will be left unfiltered to continue to wreak havoc on impressionable people in our society.
 
Melt Face Molly Drop said:
I didn’t vote in any capacity until I was 29. It wasn’t even willful ignorance, it just never occurred to me for whatever reason. I just didn’t understand anything but I also wasn’t interested in understanding. Then I awoke. That’s the only thing I’ll ever give Trump credit for.

I imagine there’s hundreds of thousands, if not millions, out there that think similarly on both accounts.
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That’s the thing. You look at this election and the initial reaction is that the majority of Americans voted FOR Trump but I don’t know if even 50% of the entire population even bothers to vote so while the majority of voters voted for Trump (which is still too many) it’s still likely 25% of the population overall.

So much good could come if people actually took part in the process but I understand why they are so disillusioned to even consider that it matters.
 
mdmost said:
There will be more disinformation going forward on vaccines now which will lead to more people opting out which will lead to more people dying from preventable diseases. It's disheartening that the worst elements of social media played a huge hand in this election and will be left unfiltered to continue to wreak havoc on impressionable people in our society.
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Just to add. With vaccines not being 100% effective for everyone, herd immunity is the actual thing which helps keep disease at bay. So less people being vaccinated is also a problem for those that are, but may not be lucky enough to have had an effective immune reaction for the vaccine they received.
 
Ghost said:
Am I going to become the Black Sheep of the forum if I admit I'm actually excited to see what RFK can do with proper resources?

He has some unconventional stances and is obviously a bit of an odd ball, but I get the sense that he's truly well-intentioned and cares about all American people, and he’s the first person I’ve seen in a position of power wanting to focus on:

• Reducing ultra-processed foods in the American diet
• Removing harmful chemicals, carcinogens, and additives out of American food offerings
• Addressing childhood obesity and diabetes
• Potentially exploring alternative approaches to treating chronic conditions
• Investigating the impact of environmental toxins on public health

If effective, it’s an objective good to come out of a bad situation. Dare I say a good that would be far more impactful for the wellbeing of the American people than most of what I've seen from any sitting president in recent memory?

Bonus: He HATEESSSS Big Pharma and wants to take the fight to them for what they've done to Americans with predatory pharmaceuticals. Also a proponent of stuff like MDMA, ketamine, and psychedelic therapies.
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While I agree that his stance on healthy foods is refreshing, he also is a proponent of things like raw milk, which is at best, only safe if you are milking the cow right there and has the potential to be life threatening.

When I worked at the Louisiana public health institute, we had an initiative to try to get healthy food into the food desert that was left of NOLA after hurricane Katrina. It was eye opening to see how difficult it was to stock fresh foods, especially for small neighborhood convenience stores, simply due to spoilage. Many of the stores couldn’t have offered healthy foods had it not been for subsidies. The power of highly processed foods is that they don’t go bad which is why they cost so little. We also had to be mindful that many people were living in trailers and hotel rooms that had little to no access to kitchen equipment, except maybe a microwave. Many people live in places where they can’t cook because there is no kitchen available to them. Yes, it’s nice to say that we are going to remove these items, but what and how are we replacing them? This is a question of economic viability over just an availability of bad for you food. When people have the luxury of time and the resources to buy food, people will tend towards eating better—as evidenced by the wealth having better nutrition and smaller waistlines. I would like for them to remove harmful chemicals from food, but this largely means that we need to take plastics out of food packaging. This, again, works well on a micro level if you have a strong web of food production in your immediate vicinity. If you live in a densely populated area, especially where there are already food deserts due to groceries leaving citing economic viability, this is going to be a challenge—that again, makes this a problem that only wealth can solve, but since RFK is ultimately out of touch with the issues that arise from extreme poverty, he won’t address properly.

My big concern is that he vows to get rid of a lot of FDA top level people. The FDA is already stretched for resources. Removing bodies will impact drug approvals and the rigor that drug trials are given. This will slow down drug approvals, including those for life saving drugs. It’s going to be a poop show if he gets rid of leaders at the FDA and there will be real world consequences that will negatively impact the public having access to new drugs.
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Yeah, I'm aware. As long as they aren't pulled in the meantime, who cares? I'm very pro-vaccine, but I guess my life has also been a case study in the effects of the gross ways big pharma and western medicine intangle. So perhaps I have a little more tolerance for questioning the system.

I was on Ritilan + welbutrin for ADD by the time I was in 2nd grade. By 7th grade, I had been misdiagnosed as bi-polar after a half-heartened suicide attempt. I spent my teenage years on a grip of mood stablizers that made me act legit bi-polar. Many of them are no longer on the market and had wild side effects like causing me to put on 30 lbs in less than a month (after being drastically underweight from the adderall).

My freshman year of college, I went off all the meds, and, shocker, I wasn't anything close to actually being bi-polar. Just ADD. Now I have a chronic auto-immune disorder that I can't help but wonder is a ripple effect of all the drugs. And meanwhile, I had to experiment with my diet and attempt acupuncture on my own before discovering them life altering.

And again, I want to clarify, I am very pro-vaccine and the such. I'm eagerly awaiting the one for Epestein-Barr. The same Peruvian friend I mentioned earlier, is still alive because Stanford found a cure for cystic fibrosis and works in vaccine research. I also think the silver lining of the pandemic is going to MRNA tech.

But that doesn't mean that it's long gone ignored that huge chunks of our system are broken.
Click to expand...
I do have Celiac and I went around and around with doctors chasing all sorts of wild diagnoses. I also saw how incredibly broken the system is for anyone with a chronic condition. The system we have only works for acute care because we have a very transactional health system. I am sick; I pay for these three procedures-test, exam, and pharmaceutical for instance. If I remain sick after that, I must, then, have another transactional encounter. This person cannot help so they add in a specialist and if you do not fit into that specialist’s box, you keep paying, but see no difference. The specialist, just like the first doctor, do not have any repercussions from your illness, but you keep paying and continue to be sick. Once you run out of money, you can no longer get care for your illness, so you are left on your own—but now, you have no money and it is harder for you to work and get more money to pay for your care.

This is the reality of most people. We go to the doctor expecting them to give us answers, because we are in a transactional system where we pay money for diagnoses. What doctors charge for procedures is also partially driven by those diagnoses—so a doctor who sees a hypertensive diabetic can charge more for the same 15 minutes than they can for a person who has no chronic conditions who is just in for a check up. The system rewards doctors who see sick patients as long as the doctors don’t have to spend too much time in treatment. And with the alarming rate that private equity is snapping up medical hospitals and practices, doctors are now not allowed to spend too much time with patients. The private equity restraints are making them less effective, more expensive, and more likely to burn out. Most other countries have figured out that if you make healthcare for profit, it produces the worst possible outcomes.
 
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