Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
mdmost
Well-Known Member
It's a traditionally Republican state. So the mix of pro and anti Trump is higher there with mail ins than in Democratic strongholds. Previously, the mail-ins mostly broke for the Rs.
Space Wanderer
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I think you’re right, but it will be a longer process than just changing a few figureheads. We just need to keep gradually putting more AOCs, Omars, Tlaibs, Bowmans and Bushes into the Congressional caucus and other positions of leadership, and change the balance of power in the party that way. A lot of people on the left soured on “electoralism” between the original Squad victories and the 2020 South Carolina primary, and it is true that voting is not enough. But the basic work of winning elections - small to medium elections, not presidential elections - is going to be part of the process.
ayayrawn
Well-Known Member
Apparently NV already had a pretty widespread use of mail in ballots pre pandemic, so they don't skew as heavily dem.
Tys1
Well-Known Member
I think it’s been that way since late Wednesday night hasn’t it? I think the last couple days speak more for our addiction to the news cycle than anything. I mean, I know that’s what it is for me, I still can’t look away.
LeeVing
Well-Known Member
Yep, but i'm pretty sure they'll do it anyway
But you know they will still push for them. If they see a change in their favor the win by Joe Biden was less decisive. It would also undermine the election results nationally if Trump managed to flip a state with a recount.
wokeupnew
Well-Known Member
The reason the GOP did so well everywhere else is they embraced Trump and his racism, xenophobia, mysongny, etc. The McCain Republicans would not outwardly endorse those views even if their views and policies do favor it. Since Trump was forcing his way into the party, they kind of had to go along with it if he was going to be the nominee.
The Dems need to embrace progressive issues if they want to stand a chance. Florida voted to raise the minimum wage with something like 60% majority voting for it, including several GOP voters being in favor. Everywhere marijuana was on the ballot it passed. However, social issues like abortion are still not in favor in the deep midwest. I think Dems need to embrace economic progressive issues (Universal Health Care, Raising National Minimum Wage, Workers Rights/Union Protection, More taxes for the wealthy, better infrastructure, funding for education) right now. Focusing on hot ticket items like Abortion, Religion, and the like would be too much for rural voters right now. Eventually, but not right now unfortunately.
Tys1
Well-Known Member
My feeling is that leaning rights are much more likely to vote for a far right candidate than leaning left is to vote for a far left. It’s my own personal feeling that Democrats hold their own moral framework in higher regard than republicans. Republicans are more likely to abandon their framework so that the “enemy” doesn’t win.
I just see many left leaning people staying home altogether if we run somebody too progressive.
Edit: also, in my opinion the reasoning for this comes down, essentially, to allowing the far right to claim patriotism as a party ideal. If Democrats can reclaim the idea of patriotism then we can afford a more progressive posture. So if you’re a leftist, FLY YOUR DAMN TRUCK FLAG (or Tesla flag, I suppose)! If the left wins the war on patriotism then we earn the uneducated white vote, i.e. the rural vote. It’d be game over for generations. This is where grassroots progressive campaigns like Beto’s can make a HUGE difference. Progressives have a place, it’s just not in the high office.... yet.
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I 100% agree with you on that.
For democrats, their base does not like change. The boomers and older democrats very much like the status quo. They don't want to see reform. They have their wealth and want things to be predictable. What they have always known. They hold strong with their views. And to them progressives are just as bad as republicans. They won't cross that line.
And Progressives are jaded settling for a centralist. Nothing they stand for ever gets done. No real change happens. All they see is the generation before stealing from them for their own benefit in short term policies.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Maybe it’s just time to change the way we hold them accountable.
maybe we have issues based voting. These would votes held every two years. You’d have a list of issues and ask every American to vote for the most important issue to them. Once we establish which issue needs to be addressed, a bipartisan committee works on a ballot to be released within a quarter gauging what needs to be resolved in that issue and then once the results are posted... all three branches have to work to have it done before the next ballot. Inability to get see advancement in issues through two of the cycles would automatically disqualify any member from any branch from running when their current term ends.
this would clearly require term limits in the courts.
maybe we have issues based voting. These would votes held every two years. You’d have a list of issues and ask every American to vote for the most important issue to them. Once we establish which issue needs to be addressed, a bipartisan committee works on a ballot to be released within a quarter gauging what needs to be resolved in that issue and then once the results are posted... all three branches have to work to have it done before the next ballot. Inability to get see advancement in issues through two of the cycles would automatically disqualify any member from any branch from running when their current term ends.
this would clearly require term limits in the courts.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Biden will soon be the head of the Democratic Party. He is good voice for this moment. The Future leaders and face of the Democratic Party are already there and their influence and clout will grow over the next few years.
ayayrawn
Well-Known Member
You think this way because this is the state of the two party system in America.
We have two right-wing parties. Biden was accused of being a left-wing socialist commie when he most certainly is not. We've never had a progressive on a major ticket (edit: in the modern sense, i'm not talking Roosevelt), so I don't think we could say how dems would vote one way or another. Obama ran on "change" fired people up, and won two terms. If we had a candidate that emboldened voters for the better, instead of exploiting their fears like Trump did, we could absolutely get a progressive into office.
Joe Biden said he would not pack the SCOTUS keeping the current number of justices at 9. However, he is open to rotating justices. Meaning we nominate more justices and confirm them to life time sentences, but rotate them in and out.
With Republicans in control of the Senate, this too is a non starter. Mitch has already indicated he will not allow a vote on the floor for any such change to the SCOTUS nor would he allow any form of confirmation hearing for new judges.
On top of this, we already know any bill for DC and Puerto Rico statehood is dead in the water. There will be no votes in the Senate as long as the republicans remain in power. To them, making these two territories states is essentially packing the senate with democrats. A pure power grab that must not be allowed.
With Republicans in control of the Senate, this too is a non starter. Mitch has already indicated he will not allow a vote on the floor for any such change to the SCOTUS nor would he allow any form of confirmation hearing for new judges.
On top of this, we already know any bill for DC and Puerto Rico statehood is dead in the water. There will be no votes in the Senate as long as the republicans remain in power. To them, making these two territories states is essentially packing the senate with democrats. A pure power grab that must not be allowed.
Tys1
Well-Known Member
In either case it’s anecdotal. As I see it, if Bernie had ran against Trump in this race he would have been absolutely destroyed. And he still would have been much closer against Trump than if the right put up a more centralist candidate. It’s easy to THINK that he wouldn’t if we ourselves hold and share his progressive views but a more objective look at things would say otherwise, IMO.
Yeah, that summarises alright.
You have your "liberal media" which mostly all is centeralist. In neutral territory neither leaning right or left. Then you have Fox News which very obviously leans right, but is considered centralist he probably means line 2 in the chart above.
Anyone who we think of as a centeralist the right does not consider to be a centeralist.
With Mitch McConnell saying they would only confirm cabinet positions
ayayrawn
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but that's not to say the right candidate running on a progressive platform could win in 2024. Democrats will have to come up with some policy to get people excited to vote for them other than "not Trump" next time.
For the record, Biden would have also gotten destroyed had covid not happened this year. Sheer luck.
Tys1
Well-Known Member
Correct. It is a problem. I don’t see how that means choosing the right candidate to continue a positive trajectory should not be part of the conversation. Yeah man, our country is fucked up, that doesn’t mean we just stop talking about how to improve it.