Political Discussion

If Biden only gives us a Max of $10,000 that does not help me one bit whatsoever.

In 2019 the Department of Education added almost $10,000 to my student loan balance in Collection fees because I was not current the entire yet, but not yet defaulted. This does not include interest added. They really do design it to never get out from under the debt.

I graduated in 2008 with a total of 55k in student loan debt. I know owe over 120k.

No predatory collections fees in 2020 because of Covid. But I expect those to resume and without debt forgiveness there is no way I can afford to try to catch up and get ahead unless I triple my income. And that's likely as my industry is still seeing a wage decline due to offshoring and "everyone can code" mentality that persists now.

Biden would veto a $50,000 forgiveness plan. And as we know, republicans are not on board with this at all. So a veto would not get overridden.

I shouldn't be surprised. Biden was a key playing in everyone being able to be approved for anything with student loans that drove prices sky high. Then he was the key player in making that debt exempt from bankruptcy when to protect the lenders when it started becoming an issue.
 
Perhaps Ted, you can take this opportunity to just stop trying to scoreboard tragedies in other states to score cheap political points. We're all Americans. When Texas asked for federal help, did Biden decline because this state is run by QAnon dumbasses who thought the election was fraudulent? No, he did his duty as President and gave Americans who voted for him and didn't vote for him the funds necessary to help get them through this crisis. He didn't take Texas to task for having a greed based electrical system.
 
Perhaps Ted, you can take this opportunity to just stop trying to scoreboard tragedies in other states to score cheap political points. We're all Americans. When Texas asked for federal help, did Biden decline because this state is run by QAnon dumbasses who thought the election was fraudulent? No, he did his duty as President and gave Americans who voted for him and didn't vote for him the funds necessary to help get them through this crisis. He didn't take Texas to task for having a greed based electrical system.
He also didn't reject the funding based on the notion that Texas should have raked.
 
I think that’s the wrong lens to apply; Americans aren’t “united” in any meaningful sense about the stimulus, they’re just hurting and need relief. Many of those people will accept that relief AND remain convinced that Biden is a lying, corrupt body double working from a TV set while the actual Oval Office sits empty and awaiting its rightful occupant.

Same people who call Medicaid and food stamps socialism, but have no problem with getting stimulus checks.
 
I think that’s the wrong lens to apply; Americans aren’t “united” in any meaningful sense about the stimulus, they’re just hurting and need relief. Many of those people will accept that relief AND remain convinced that Biden is a lying, corrupt body double working from a TV set while the actual Oval Office sits empty and awaiting its rightful occupant.

This probably is very true. I can only dream though.

The student loan forgiveness plan is not very popular with boomers and not much more popular with Gen X who was the last generation to go to college on the relatively cheap.

To them this is just another example with Millennials are the "entitled generation". If previous generations had to pay for their own schooling and got no forgiveness why should Millennials? They made "poor financial decisions for borrowing more than they can afford to pay back". So why should they be entitled to a bail out?
 
This probably is very true. I can only dream though.

The student loan forgiveness plan is not very popular with boomers and not much more popular with Gen X who was the last generation to go to college on the relatively cheap.

To them this is just another example with Millennials are the "entitled generation". If previous generations had to pay for their own schooling and got no forgiveness why should Millennials? They made "poor financial decisions for borrowing more than they can afford to pay back". So why should they be entitled to a bail out?

Hey I mean if their millennial kids/grandkids can't take them in because instead of buying a home they were paying huge loan debts their parents told them to get (trust me, our parents told us college wasn't an option but they and we didn't have the money to pay outright), hope they enjoy the assisted living home until Medicare runs out.

Snark aside, it's not a particularly unpopular initiative. Based on the Vox polling, 75-19 among Democrats for 50k w/ no conditioning. Even among all parties, the splits for 45+ aged individuals break even (47% support, 48% oppose, 5% don't know) admittedly with a skew against in terms of strength (people are more likely to somewhat support or strongly oppose).

10K is much more popular among Boomers and Gen X than 50k, so I get that portion and why Biden may skew there, but I'm also very bullish that Dems should be pushing hard on publicly popular reforms even if they end up overshooting the needs. It changes the negotiation points and ultimately I think 10k only really helps people who probably don't need the help much (like, uh, me).

It's probably also worth noting that some of this opposition is purely because it's Pres. Biden proposing it as opposed to Pres. Trump. When the question was

The next president is considering using an executive order to forgive up to $50,000 of student loan debt for each borrower making less than $125,000 a year. - It was 46-40 in support among 45+

When "The next president" was replaced by "President-Elect Joe Biden", it's suddenly 41-45 against among 45+. There's some segment driven purely by the who of it all.
 



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It's probably also worth noting that some of this opposition is purely because it's Pres. Biden proposing it as opposed to Pres. Trump. When the question was

The next president is considering using an executive order to forgive up to $50,000 of student loan debt for each borrower making less than $125,000 a year. - It was 46-40 in support among 45+
From the article
Biden argues that the government shouldn't forgive debt for people who went to "Harvard and Yale and Penn"

I understand that logic, I don't agree with it, but I understand it. Personally, I think it should be an all or nothing, who cares who benefits from it. Regardless, if I understand correctly, Rich Ivy League students who Biden doesn't want to offer relief to should fall outside of that relief window anyways. So get it fucking done, jesus.
 
Funny enough, and I didn't expect this, an income cap doesn't shift public perception on this one. Adding in the under 125k language made some supporters more likely to support it strongly but opposition hears 50k and checks out across demographics.

I'm surprised but I feel like that caveat might be aimed at pulling in Joe Manchin and Kristin Sinemia as opposed to voters. I also think Biden might know what they would support in an omnibus COVID bill and that he has other priorities in there for better or for worse.

Edit: If you want to get this to be popular among older folks, tell them forgiving 50k is likely to get the 28 year old out of their basement (which is a rapidly increasing trend). If I were paying 300-500 month in student loans (or more) there's no way I would have bought my own place and moved out.
 
How much do people think Ivy League Schools cost? 50k loan is nothing for them unless you got a crazy scholarship.

Our in-state schools have more than doubled in price since I graduated while the lottery scholarship has remained the same. Many people whose first choice would have been Clemson have not even considered it because of price. My boss is planning on sending his girls out of state for cheaper. Totally broken.

Edit: sorry, meant to include I graduated in 2010
 
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How much do people think Ivy League Schools cost? 50k loan is nothing for them unless you got a crazy scholarship.

Our in-state schools have more than doubled in price since I graduated while the lottery scholarship has remained the same. Many people whose first choice would have been Clemson have not even considered it because of price. My boss is planning on sending his girls out of state for cheaper. Totally broken.

Guarantee most people in that 45+ realm have no idea unless they had a child go to college in the past 5-10 years.

I graduated in 2010, and I found the costs for Freshmen from my college in 2011. The costs were 44,900 per year for courses + room and board. For students in the 2020-2021 course year for the same figures? $57,960.

I know a lot of Ivies and schools provide substantial aid but you're right, 50k in debt forgiveness is not substantial when a lot of people are taking loans in the six figures (or have had debt build up in the six figures) to do this. This ignores those who decided to go to grad school/doctoral schools/law schools where it just compounds. I get Biden using Ivies as a substitute for rich but an Ivy education is not guaranteed to produce substantial financial rewards.
 
Guarantee most people in that 45+ realm have no idea unless they had a child go to college in the past 5-10 years.

I graduated in 2010, and I found the costs for Freshmen from my college in 2011. The costs were 44,900 per year for courses + room and board. For students in the 2020-2021 course year for the same figures? $57,960.

I know a lot of Ivies and schools provide substantial aid but you're right, 50k in debt forgiveness is not substantial when a lot of people are taking loans in the six figures (or have had debt build up in the six figures) to do this. This ignores those who decided to go to grad school/doctoral schools/law schools where it just compounds. I get Biden using Ivies as a substitute for rich but an Ivy education is not guaranteed to produce substantial financial rewards.
I also graduated in 2010 and my yearly costs including room and board were like 14k. I had the state lotto scholarship, which was about $10k and a simple scholarship from the University for $1k. My parents were happy to pay the $3k a year. I am extremely fortunate to have graduated with no debt.

Current costs for room and board are now over $30k. Scholarship from the lotto is the same. I would have had about $50k in loans under today's conditions if my parents were able to pay a little more a year.
 
How much do people think Ivy League Schools cost? 50k loan is nothing for them unless you got a crazy scholarship.

Our in-state schools have more than doubled in price since I graduated while the lottery scholarship has remained the same. Many people whose first choice would have been Clemson have not even considered it because of price. My boss is planning on sending his girls out of state for cheaper. Totally broken.

In state / State schools now have a tuition of $36k in many areas. These aren't private schools or ivy league.

In a Twitter thread last year I remember someone saying "I want to so and so school for only $5,200 a semester. I didn't take out loans and worked hard as a bar tender to pay may way through school. You should be able to do it as well." Then someone asked when did you go to school. This person replied in the 90's. They then responded to him with "You do realize tuition at said school is now $38k alone today. That does not include room and board." That person never did continue the thread after being called out on that.

I went to high school in an all white, affluent rural part of the state. My high school had statistics that 96% of graduates went on to a 4 year degree. In high school guidance councilors never discussed whether or not college was the right choice for you, or if you could afford it. It was always about what school was the best fit for you in terms of academics or sports or amenities and social environment. Several of my classmates went to ivy league schools such as Harvard.

My family wasn't affluent, just average. And my parents were divorced. Even so, going to college was never a question. It was an expectation. You had to go on to college for success. We never had any discussions about costs or whether or not we could afford this. The only discussions we had were to get me motivated to apply to more schools. Right those admission essays and study harder and take those SAT's again for a better grade.

When I was accepted, my father went online and applied for financial aid and student loans without even consulting me or involving me in the process. I'm still pissed at him over that. It was like I got my acceptance letter to my first choice school. I accepted and that night my father tells me financial aid is all taken care of. I was like what.

Tuition for me was $13,000 a semester plus room and board. After financial aid and scholarships I had about $14,000 a year in loans for a total of about $55,000 for 4 years of school.

I graduated in 2008, right as the recession hit. My first job ended after 6 months. The small agency I was working for went under.

I moved back in with my mom and step date and was working 2 retail jobs. I couldn't afford to live on my own. Less than a year of this my step father game me an ultimatum to get a job and move about by x date or you will be homeless. He never went to college, and moved out on his own when he was 18. He used that as an example and didn't want adult children living in his house.

I ended up in retail management because no one was hiring in my field and after rent I couldn't afford student loans. So I used up all of my deferment. Which resulted in my student loans ballooning because of interest. They say using deferment is a poor choice. You should never do that. But I didn't have a choice. It was do that, or be homeless. Getting back into my field at the end of the recession ended up with me working at a start up that failed. So I was jobless once again. Took 15 months to get a full time job in my field again / a job that wasn't a low wage service job. The biggest issue was not having enough experience, and when I could get a job I started at entry level. Again in a situation where I couldn't afford both rent and student loans and fell behind. And that's where I am today. Never being able to catch up because my jobs have been in high rent area. And I didn't have the option of living at home with my parents.
 
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