Political Discussion

Not to get hung up on minutia but I would disagree with including Iowa. The state is very Midwestern, similar to Central Illinois and most of the other states that grow endless fields of corn and soybeans. They are traditionally Protestant/Catholic. Church is still a big part of community probably only second to local bars and taverns. I have never spent much time in the other states listed but I can certainly attest than none of my friends or family in Iowa would consider themselves to have a “Wild West” core value. They are much more Fargo than No Country For Old Men.

I thought I included a disclaimer of "except Iowa" but was speed typing during a break. We largely agree- was def not trying to call them wild west.

Though I did just have a conversation with a good friend from Iowa and she was pretty insistent that Iowa was far less relgious than places like Indiana and that the drift rightward had more to do with the death of good jobs in a lot areas.
 
I am sure these people exist but I am also sure that assault rifle bans were not something any of these voters worried about. If you think Kamala is gonna take your guns you also would have thought that Obama and Biden were gonna as well.

My lengthy response above was aimed at both the moderates convo and the guns convo.

I think the personality types I mention are far more concerned with guns than the suburbanites who went Obama Trump-Biden.

But also, neither Obama nor Biden were campaigning on taking guns away. Kamala has removed "thinking" it might happen from the equation. She is saying it will happen.
 
I thought I included a disclaimer of "except Iowa" but was speed typing during a break. We largely agree- was def not trying to call them wild west.

Though I did just have a conversation with a good friend from Iowa and she was pretty insistent that Iowa was far less relgious than places like Indiana and that the drift rightward had more to do with the death of good jobs in a lot areas.
Lots of brain drain in states without larger metro areas. I know a lot of people from Iowa who ended up in Chicago, Minneapolis, in Kansas City. The state has never been much of a manufacturing hub but agriculture has changed a ton over the past 50 years. Most of the folks staying put in Iowa are older or less educated.

An aside. I read a story last election cycle comparing Michigan to Ohio as they are both large populated Midwestern states that a very comparable in a bunch of ways and yet Michigan has shifted to the left while Ohio moves to the Right. They say the main shift has to do with state leadership and gerrymandering along with Michigan making it easier for people to vote while Ohio has made it harder to register and stay registered.

 
That’s how stump speeches usually work.
I guess. Maybe I just haven’t watched this many in the past. She basically does the 5 paragraph esssay thing with an intro and conclusion for the audience she is speaking to. Might also be some of Trumps appeal as he is always off script and you never know what nonsense he might start ranting about.
 
I guess. Maybe I just haven’t watched this many in the past. She basically does the 5 paragraph esssay thing with an intro and conclusion for the audience she is speaking to. Might also be some of Trumps appeal as he is always off script and you never know what nonsense he might start ranting about.
Trump repeats himself ad nauseam but it’s always part of a random stream of conscious monologue. The MAGA people that follow him around like he’s the Grateful Dead will chant along to their favorite one liners.
 
Lots of brain drain in states without larger metro areas. I know a lot of people from Iowa who ended up in Chicago, Minneapolis, in Kansas City. The state has never been much of a manufacturing hub but agriculture has changed a ton over the past 50 years. Most of the folks staying put in Iowa are older or less educated.

An aside. I read a story last election cycle comparing Michigan to Ohio as they are both large populated Midwestern states that a very comparable in a bunch of ways and yet Michigan has shifted to the left while Ohio moves to the Right. They say the main shift has to do with state leadership and gerrymandering along with Michigan making it easier for people to vote while Ohio has made it harder to register and stay registered.

Michigan and Ohio are very loyal to their biggest universities. So, maybe their shift had to do with gerrymandering and access to voting, or maybe they took the schools colors too seriously. 🤔

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It's really sad what's happened to JK Rowling. I'm not sure what broke her brain, I assume Covid like everyone else, but this crap with the Algerian boxer is about the saddest thing I've seen portrayed under the guise of protecting women. It's just like with Elon. Someone who helped create something very awesome that ignited people around the world who is now just an utter piece of garbage who spreads hate and misinformation with their latest culture war outrage.
 
It's really sad what's happened to JK Rowling. I'm not sure what broke her brain, I assume Covid like everyone else, but this crap with the Algerian boxer is about the saddest thing I've seen portrayed under the guise of protecting women. It's just like with Elon. Someone who helped create something very awesome that ignited people around the world who is now just an utter piece of garbage who spreads hate and misinformation with their latest culture war outrage.
So beyond sick of her. What a scumbag.
 
It's really sad what's happened to JK Rowling. I'm not sure what broke her brain, I assume Covid like everyone else, but this crap with the Algerian boxer is about the saddest thing I've seen portrayed under the guise of protecting women. It's just like with Elon. Someone who helped create something very awesome that ignited people around the world who is now just an utter piece of garbage who spreads hate and misinformation with their latest culture war outrage.
If I'm not mistaken, it started with her before Covid.

I LOVE the Harry Potter books. Was not a fan until about the time that the third was about to be released. My daughter received books 1 & 2 for xmas, the entire family read them and we were hooked. I took my oldest to the midnight book releases for the last few books. I found a download leak of the last book - we printed it out (husband printed multiple chapters at work) and we sat there reading it next to eachother, passed each chapter once finished, and knew how it ended before we could pick up our reserved books on night of release. When my daughter and I finally got our copies at 1am (the line was insanely long) we both turned to the last chapter to see if what I had downloaded was legit or if it was fanfic. (It was real)

I was so disgusted when JK turned out to be so awful. I'm quite sure it was before Covid since husband and I were in Edinburgh in Aug 2019 (to see the National in Glasgow) and visited a few "Potter" sites. It was def after she'd posted a lot of bs.
 
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As always, I appreciate the long and thoughtful response. It's good to understand where you are coming from.

I'd start by pointing out that moderate is not the same thing as casual. There are definitely some right wingers on r/politics (in part because the sub puts an emphasis on discussing things with a moderate tone). However, MUCH of the sub is comprised of people who feel at home in either party and thus, don't want to be on r/conservative or r/politics (which leans very left).

I don't think we necessarily ride in different circles. Most of my friends are of the same mindset-- but they are also the ones who were going to vote blue no matter what. And of that group, Palestine / Israel is the thing that has them on the fence. Or at least had them on the fence with Biden. I'm also in IL so they have the luxury of being in a safely blue state.

That said, I think the primary difference in our views is that I have long run in activist circles (went on hiatus during the pandemic and haven't returned) that I'm still very connected to online. I also spent 1000's of hours door knocking without a voter registration list between 2015-2020 (in five different states) because the campaigns I was working for were always fighting an uphill battle against the DNC machine. This includes Bernie twice but also multiple local elections and several props.

During my time door knocking, two of the most common personality types I came across were A) "I'm economically very liberal and socially basically a libertarian on social issues (across the board) but I don't any of our politicians because they are corporate whore"s. Of note, this comes close very close to my world view except that I do want gun control. The other very common personality type was the "I believe in the free market, am liberal on social issues but don't trust our politicians". The later type is VERY common where I grew up in Colorado- except in CO a lot of those people are the type of educated Republican who has been pushed out of the party by Trump instead of unregistered.

Now what I would note is that none of the states I was in are known as particularly reglious (CA, NV, AZ, CO, IA). Instead, most of them lean "wild, Wild West" in their core values. But either way, all the assertions here that moderate voters don't exist are wild to me. 1/3 of the country is independents. And while a solid chunk of those independents are progressives who are to the left of Democrats (or fall into personality type 1), a very large amount of them are closer to personality type 2. People who still want to believe that free-market economics work but who find themselves disgusted by the stranglehold hate, bigotry and (to some degree) religion has on the GOP.

And while I'm sure a solid chunk of the disenfranchised people I spoke to are now Trump supporters-- there are also a ton of people who went Obama-Trump-Biden. And those people will likely decide the election.
I just want to point out (and this isn't against what you're saying, just an area my PhD was focused on so felt like chiming in) that "free market economics" have never worked in the history of the world. The countries that have tried the hardest (and the US isn't it) have had some of the most catastrophic economic consequences that have vastly increased poverty, suffering, and often led to authoritarianism and dictatorships or were caused by them because a free people doesn't end up wanting that when they see the consequences. The only free market economists are hard core right wing and funded by right wingers. Most mainstream economists, who still overwhelmingly are conservative, are not hard core believers in this. The libertarian movement swung hard in this direction with heavy Koch funding and the cooptation of the Tea Party movement by those big dollar schmucks. Ron Paul created two monsters (his loser son and the idiots in the Tea Party not realizing that the Kochs took over their movement). The funny thing is that a ton of people hear the term and think it's a good thing because they parrot people they think they agree with who use the term. It's one of those things the right has done solid brainwashing on, because it gets people to vote for things that screw them over by attaching the phrase to something they don't actually understand.

For example, free market economics are all about offshoring jobs and closing up industry to find cheaper labor. Then you hear blue collar workers who are opposed to that thinking that they actually love it. Fighting misinformation is so frickin hard especially when one side gets their power by doing the easy thing, which is creating mis- and dis- information.
 
I just want to point out (and this isn't against what you're saying, just an area my PhD was focused on so felt like chiming in) that "free market economics" have never worked in the history of the world. The countries that have tried the hardest (and the US isn't it) have had some of the most catastrophic economic consequences that have vastly increased poverty, suffering, and often led to authoritarianism and dictatorships or were caused by them because a free people doesn't end up wanting that when they see the consequences. The only free market economists are hard core right wing and funded by right wingers. Most mainstream economists, who still overwhelmingly are conservative, are not hard core believers in this. The libertarian movement swung hard in this direction with heavy Koch funding and the cooptation of the Tea Party movement by those big dollar schmucks. Ron Paul created two monsters (his loser son and the idiots in the Tea Party not realizing that the Kochs took over their movement). The funny thing is that a ton of people hear the term and think it's a good thing because they parrot people they think they agree with who use the term. It's one of those things the right has done solid brainwashing on, because it gets people to vote for things that screw them over by attaching the phrase to something they don't actually understand.

For example, free market economics are all about offshoring jobs and closing up industry to find cheaper labor. Then you hear blue collar workers who are opposed to that thinking that they actually love it. Fighting misinformation is so frickin hard especially when one side gets their power by doing the easy thing, which is creating mis- and dis- information.

You're preaching to the choir.
 
It's really sad what's happened to JK Rowling. I'm not sure what broke her brain, I assume Covid like everyone else, but this crap with the Algerian boxer is about the saddest thing I've seen portrayed under the guise of protecting women. It's just like with Elon. Someone who helped create something very awesome that ignited people around the world who is now just an utter piece of garbage who spreads hate and misinformation with their latest culture war outrage.

If I'm not mistaken, it started with her before Covid.

I LOVE the Harry Potter books. Was not a fan until about the time that the third was about to be released. My daughter received books 1 & 2 for xmas, the entire family read them and we were hooked. I took my oldest to the midnight book releases for the last few books. I found a download leak of the last book - we printed it out (husband printed multiple chapters at work) and we sat there reading it next to eachother, passed each chapter once finished, and knew how it ended before we could pick up our reserved books on night of release. When my daughter and I finally got our copies at 1am (the line was insanely long) we both turned to the last chapter to see if what I had downloaded was legit or if it was fanfic. (It was real)

I was so disgusted when JK turned out to be so awful. I'm quite sure it was before Covid since husband and I were in Edinburgh in Aug 2019 (to see the National in Glasgow) and visited a few "Potter" sites. It was def after she'd posted a lot of bs.
Yeah, it started back in 2017 or 2018. It started with a liked tweet about the trans community and tweeting something about them. Then she would disappear for a couple weeks or more because of the backlash and then out of the blue tweet something again and then disappear. Slowly it started to escalate and get more hateful and crazy until now she's completely lost her mind. She's beefing with the Potter cast, retweeting new-nazies, posting anti-trans conspiracy bullshit and saying she would rather be arrested then calling someone by their proper noun.
 
Yeah, it started back in 2017 or 2018. It started with a liked tweet about the trans community and tweeting something about them. Then she would disappear for a couple weeks or more because of the backlash and then out of the blue tweet something again and then disappear. Slowly it started to escalate and get more hateful and crazy until now she's completely lost her mind. She's beefing with the Potter cast, retweeting new-nazies, posting anti-trans conspiracy bullshit and saying she would rather be arrested then calling someone by their proper noun.
People like Rawling and Musk have “fuck everyone” money. They loved running with the elite while being fawned over by an adoring public. They thought they could get away with anything, so they started revealing their true selves and the public didn’t like who they turned out to be. No more guest spots on The Simpsons or SNL hosting gigs, instead they found themselves being less revered by the culture. They could have just faded from the public eye and enjoyed their billions of dollars with their slightly diminished legacy intact but they would rather be admired, even if it’s by the homophobes, racists and TERFs.
 
People like Rawling and Musk have “fuck everyone” money. They loved running with the elite while being fawned over by an adoring public. They thought they could get away with anything, so they started revealing their true selves and the public didn’t like who they turned out to be. No more guest spots on The Simpsons or SNL hosting gigs, instead they found themselves being less revered by the culture. They could have just faded from the public eye and enjoyed their billions of dollars with their slightly diminished legacy intact but they would rather be admired, even if it’s by the homophobes, racists and TERFs.
I don’t know Rowling is a harder pill to swallow than Musk. Musk was kind of always a shit. Rowling wrote a story that was very inviting to other and then was like well not that other. It’s heartbreaking.
 
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